New Fuji / Voigtlander 667 Folder Update

[ben_m]

I'm sure I won't be disappointed with the Voigtlander, because I'm confident it's exactly the same camera down to the lens glass... EBC lens from Fuji. I suspect there is some production reason, but more likely a tax or political reason for Cosina to even be involved in this project.

Stephen has said (in the other thread: 'What to expect from the new Bessa's Fujinon Lens?') that the lens is going to be made by Cosina.

I agree with you about the pricing, though the development costs might be a large proportion of the price tag, if they only sell a few thousand.

OT, but thinking about Fuji making lenses: do they actually make lenses for the Hasselblad H series, or could they already outsource this to Cosina?

 

[chippy]

There is nothing really new or innovative about this camera, which is one of the reasons I am on the List...


This folder is fairly routine, even mundane, technology. That's in it's favor.



$2000 and $3000??? Are there really people smoking funny stuff on this forum?

You are all welcome to say I told you so... but I don't think it's going to happen ... Lay aside $1200. You'll be right in the ball park.

I agree. its not exactly reinventing the wheel or new technology.

Moreover, although the people involved no doubt worked hard and put their time in, the R&D for this should of been minimal.

heck if its too exspensive I will just continue to use my old folders, 70 years on they are still working just fine

 

[kuzano]

Stephen has said (in the other thread: 'What to expect from the new Bessa's Fujinon Lens?') that the lens is going to be made by Cosina.

Well, if that's true, I will push for the Fuji, but I won't refuse the Voigtlander if Cosina does make the Heliar. The Heliar has an excellent reputation in it's own right. It's just coincidental to me that the Heliar has traditionally been a 5 element lens, and now it's going to be 6 like the EBC Fuji.

There's a certain rendition to the Fuji lenses that I like very much, but a Cosina Heliar won't make me pass on the camera, if it's impossible to buy the Fuji some way.

 

[wlewisiii]

Kuzano, the lens is the same optical design on both versions of the camera. The Heliar is one in name only - according to http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_fdih7jzkae.html it's a classic 80mm f3.5 gaussian type with 6 elements in four groups. With modern multicoating, it'll be an excellent all purpose normal FOV lens.

Hope this helps,

William

 

[CameraQuest]

Things to Consider

Things to Consider

Things to Consider
1) There is a reason no other camera maker has produced a 120 film 6x7 folder in decades. The market for the camera is considered to be very small -- too small for most camera makers to take the investment chance on. From Cosina and Fujica's standpoint, they are taking a big chance to satisfy a pent up niche demand. While they don't want to over charge, the bean counters want to make sure they make a profit with this new camera line.

2) Unlike the Cosina made Voigtlander 35mm Bessas, most if not all the tooling for the Fuji/Bessa III is NEW and not shared with any other camera. So far as I know, this includes the optics as well. That translates into higher per unit cost.

3) You can be sure the price will be carefully considered to maximize long term sales and popularity. However with no other product lilne to share the new 120 folder costs with, the price will likely be higher proportionally than the very economically priced 35mm Voigtlander Bessas. That said, I make no specific price prediction and await further news from Fujica and Voigtlander.

Stephen

 

[chippy]

Today, a colleague gave me an old AGFA Billy Record brought over from 1933. At the time, cost the compact 6 x 9 cm camera 20 RM.

Sorry Denis, but I am missing the association you may be trying to make, between this and the new Fuji/Voigtlander. Perhaps are you making a point but i am afraid i cant see it.

its fine camera to have given to you by your colleague. perhaps you could post this in the 120 RF Folders forum (one link above this 120 RF Modern forum) as people are all to happy to discuss the vintage folders there, and these old billy records arnt seen and discussed there that often, so it would make a pleasent addition.

cheers
Andrew








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[Matus]

I have checked the german website after longer time. They state that the camera should appear in April/June 2009 on the german market. But no info on final specs or price yet. So I keep waiting ...

 

[Phantomas]

We’re getting closer to the estimate. According to this site it will be yen 218,000.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Wow.....$2500 USD.... that's too much for me!

Ray

 

[Solinar]

As mentioned before, you are looking at the out of the gate - the first FUJI 667 cameras out of this particular's store's price, which is probably in a high rent part of Tokyo.

I'm waiting for Steven Gandy to give us a US price for the Voigtlander version of this same camera.

 

[Sam N]

Thanks for the answer, but I am not getting it. Who is they?

Anyway, just saw that ringfoto (German owner of the Voigtlaender brand) has large images up. Go to http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_fdih7jzjul.html and click on the individual images. If we get that server down, they might get the tune that some people here are keen on it 😀

It seems like the photos on that page were taken with the Voigtlander 125mm macro lens on a D300.

 

[noimmunity]

Sober up dudes!

Sober up dudes!

As mentioned before, you are looking at the out of the gate - the first FUJI 667 cameras out of this particular's store's price, which is probably in a high rent part of Tokyo.

I'm waiting for Steven Gandy to give us a US price for the Voigtlander version of this same camera.

How could Stephen's price be that much different? He's got to protect himself from volatile currency markets for one thing. The fact that his other CV items haven't risen by 20% given the rise of the yen to the dollar is already pretty incredible. A year ago everybody was talking about the price of Leica because of the high euro...

The website link with pricing is Yodobashi camera, which is a pretty darn reliable source for a discount street price. Not the rock bottom lowest necessarily, but not "high rent" either. And since Fuji/Cosina are only making 5000 units, there isn't much chance of a later production price decrease, is there?

$2400 is exactly what I predicted last year when the Fuji interview at Photokina mentioned a 300,000 JPY maker's suggested price. Even with the 10% rebate they mention, the camera would still be US$2,238 at the current exchange rate. If it had come out when the exchange rate was USD1 = JPY 110 (instead of the current 1=89), the camera would have been around $1800, but I bet it would have still sold for over $2000.

Too bad. If it had been at/under $1500, it would have been something to which I could aspire.

 

[Solinar]

Well the bad news is the Yen, but Yodobashi's other gear is about 20% higher than US prices. My guess is that the Voigtlander Bessa III will begin selling for just under $2000 here.

Whether or not the price will come down later when the novelty wears off or current economic downturn takes its toll is anyone's guess.

PS - That Nikkor you are selling looks awesome. I have the older, yes heavy, chrome version.

 

[sooner]

Honestly I'm somewhat dumbfounded that they would try to sell this camera for anything close to $2400. Or maybe I'm just disappointed, because there's no way I could pay that. I agree with those who say for that kind of money, why not buy a Mamiya 7II. I know the market for this camera isn't huge, but even among the RFF crowd this pricing means probably less than a third of us will spring for this camera. By my math, it's the difference between 3x$1,200 ($3600) vice 1x$2400 ($2400). Sorry for the infantile math but you see my point--lost opportunity. Maybe they'll surprise us.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

It's a limited production camera. Their audience seem pretty clear.

 

[nksyoon]

Cameraquest is showing the price as $2250 on its home page.

http://www.cameraquest.com/

 

[Solinar]

It is what it is. For me 6x7 is my second choice for medium format. My first choice would be a 6x9. My 6x9 folders are nearing their 60th year and are showing their age, not just in their ergonomics. Had V/C 667 come in about $800 less, I would have sold some gear to finance one. It looks like that I'll be keepi using the big Fuji GW690 III a while longer.