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Thanks for the info Joe! I just got an e-mail from Ben actually so I may have a 50mm before the 35mm. As for the 35mm, I don't think I'd have problems focusing with it - skinny fingers. I'll be back at the camera shop tomorrow to check out the lenses a little more. BTW, love those Winogrand lines - and those Winogrand photos too.
 
Welcome, Allen... The Voigtlander finders are excellent, whatever the construction manterials. But I would certainly recommend from my experience that you not count on external finders for a primary use lens. Since it sits on or near the camera's horizontal center, there's no perceptible horizontal parallax, but its high position increases vertical parallax. The camera body's built-in finder has an automatic correction for parallax, very handy to avoid slicing off bits of your subject!

If you figure the 35mm lens to be your main lens for street photos at short range, I think you'll be better served with a body having parallax-corrected 35mm framelines in the body.

I agree the 40mm is a great choice too, especially in combination with a 28mm. Those who've seen the R3a at Photokina have said the 40mm framelines are hard to see for glasses wearers, whereas the R2a's 35mm framelines are easy.

In the case of the 28mm and 35mm choices, there is also a choice of faster & slower lenses, with wider maximum aperture at the expense of weight and bulk. In an SLR, the wider aperture helps focusing, but this is not a factor for an RF camera. If you figure on needing a wide aperture for low-light use, you'll need to accept the narrow DoF along with that extra size and weight. Obviously a balance of priorities all-round!
 
A warm welcome to the forum, Allen. Sorry that I can not offer any advice with the Bessa cameras, however there are plenty in use by other members and I'm sure that they will share any information they can. Nice photos -- I especially like the stairs. I hope we see more in the future.

D2 (another Doug precedes me here)
 
Doug, thanks for the advice. It does make me sit back and consider whether I would really be better off with the R3a. You'll have to forgive me - I'm a bit new to this. Do the framelines adjust for parallax correction when focused at a particular distance? If so, this wouldn't really work in my favor as I zone focus most of the time.


Another question: have you heard anything about the sound of the shutter from anyone who handled the new Bessas at Photokina? I'm wondering if there is a considerable difference between the R2 and the newer models. This is one reason why I'm going to a rangefinder camera.

About the choice of a slower/faster lens, I don't need the fastest lenses in the lineup. I do shoot in low-light but weight and size are just as important for me.

Thanks for the good advice.
 
have you heard anything about the sound of the shutter...

A prime consideration for me also. Stephen Gandy has apparently written on the CV forum that the R3A is just a lttle bit quieter than the R2, but not much. If that helps...
 
Allen, I don't understand your thinking in buying the Bessa R3A for use with a 35mm lens, but you seem to have thought it through very carefully. So, help me so that I might learn something.

You say that you want the increased magnification for use with a 50mm lens. I can see the benefit of the increased magnification with an ultra-fast 50 (f/1.5 or wider) but not with a standard 50 (f/2 or slower). Is the 50 you are contemplating very fast? Only here do i think that you'll see the benefits of the increased magnification - & with tele lenses, especially faster ones.

If you are planning to acquire an ultra-fast 50 & therefore the R3A, then I would consider using a 40 as your candid lens. I've found that it's a nice focal length for this purpose. Here I would echo Doug in that I think the parallax corrected framelines would outweigh any benefit from the slightly wider angle of view of the 35mm lens - not to mention the benefit of viewing & focusing through the same viewfinder.

I will also echo Doug in pointing out the depth of field issues with a fast or especially an ultra-fast lens. For portrait purposes this can be helpful, but for street shooting, I find myself more & more using smaller apertures to get the benefits of increased depth of field & therefore faster focusing. Of course, it has its benefits for low light shooting, but the DOF issues remain.

You asked about the whole viewfinder coverage. On his website, Stephen Gandy says that it is about 28mm on the R2. On another thread, one of our members calculated that it should be about 33mm on the R3A, but this is not from real life experience. You might try an e-mail to Stephen Gandy from his www.cameraquest.com website to see if he has looked into this issue for the R3A yet.

In regard to the use of a 35 mm lens with 40mm framelines, consider this. Cosina reports that its framelines cover about 87% of the angle of view at any given focal length. This allows you to compose your picture for what will be shown in your photo after the edges are covered by a picture frame or if you have it developed with borders, etc. Use of the 35mm framelines with a 40mm lens means that the framelines are showing you almost exactly what the lens sees because 87% of 35mm is roughly 40mm. However, when doing the opposite, i.e. 35 mm lens with 40mm framelines, the framelines will only cover about 75% of the 35mm angle of view. This is because the 40mm framelines are only covering 87% of the 40mm angle of view to begin with. When you then want to use these framelines with the even wider 35mm angle of view . . . Well, you get the picture. I'm sure that with some practice, it can be mastered - especially if the whole viewfinder coverage approximates 35mm. As Doug suggests, however, it may be awkward to see the entire viewfinder area of coverage.

Finally, welcome to the Forum! 🙂 I'm sure that I will learn from your posts.
 
Thanks for your thoughts! I'm learning as I go along here. Although I have decided which focal lengths I initially want (35 and 50), I haven't decided which specific version yet. But everyone's comments here are helping me to weigh things out.

Doug and you may be right about the R3a not being the right camera for me if I'm using the 35mm lens primarily. I guess, overall, I'm trying to cover as much as possible with one camera body. You are right that the increased magnification would come in handy if I were to use a fast 50mm or longer lens. If I decide to get a tele lens at some point, then the r3a would be a better choice.

As for the 35mm lens, I can see what Doug and you are saying about using the built-in viewfinder. Do you think that it would be too difficult to get used to framing with one of the external finders? I understand the problem with parallax but there are parallax corrected lines in the external finders right? Parallax lines adjusting to focusing distance don't really benefit me because I zone focus most of the time I shoot. So, I'm in a grey zone with respect to framing a 35mm lens whether I'm using the built-in finder or an external finder. I'm hedging on developing a sense for it.

At any rate, thanks for making me think this through even more. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. I still want to go check out the lenses some more at the shop and do a little more research.

Thanks for the welcome - I've already gotten a lot of help in this one thread!
 
Allen Gilman said:
Bill, how has the plastic 35mm finder held up? Also, I'm not used to adjusting for parallax error w/ an external finder. I'm assuming that, at close range, I will have to adjust vertically on a Bessa. Is there any adjustment that has to be made horizontally also? The reason I'm asking is I do a lot of street photography w/ subjects closer than 2 meters!

The plastic 35mm viewfinder has stood up well. Parallax viewfinder error? I have noticed none with my CV combo. I have noticed a slight error with a Kiev with Jupiter 12 and a soviet turret finder. the Kiev I have does have the meter housing which elevates the turret finder some. As for proximity, my style of shooting is different from yours, a little further out generally, still I would be surprised if you had any serious issues. but others may have better, more relevant experience with this part of your question.
 
Allen, I neglected to say that your pictures are stunning! You are doing a great job with the equipment you have. 🙂 😎

By the way, the 50/2.5 lens you are interested in is of very nice build quality, one of the better ones in the CV stable of lenses. Nice & compact as well.
 
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Allen Gilman said:
Do you think that it would be too difficult to get used to framing with one of the external finders? I understand the problem with parallax but there are parallax corrected lines in the external finders right? Parallax lines adjusting to focusing distance don't really benefit me because I zone focus most of the time I shoot. So, I'm in a grey zone with respect to framing a 35mm lens whether I'm using the built-in finder or an external finder. I'm hedging on developing a sense for it.
Hi Allen -- We haven't yet addressed that matter of parallax in connection with zone focusing. I think the viewfinder parallax correction will still be useful in this usage mode, as at least the parallax correction is in the same midzone as the focus, getting you into the ballpark. RF camera viewfinders offer much more casual framing accuracy than an SLR anyway. 🙂

My most-used camera these days is a Bronica RF645, which has parallax-corrected framelines for its "wide normal" 65mm and its longer 100mm. The whole viewfinder approximates the coverage of the wide 45mm, but of course without help on the parallax. In avoiding using the external 45 viewfinder, I really have to stay conscious of the two directions of the aiming error and try to compensate. Too often quick snap-shots slice some valuable anatomy from a nearby "victim" and I kick myself for not having my act together! Of course the external viewfinder is big and bright... still no automatic parallax correction, and indeed more parallax to correct!

I also have a Bessa-T, which of course has a rangefinder but no viewfinder. So all lenses need matched external viewfinders. The CV viewfinders are gloriously big and bright, but it is slower to focus and view separately. For zone focus it's very fast, yet there is that parallax issue. It gets more important with longer lenses, causing Cosina to add a manual tilt feature on the 90mm viewfinder to adjust for subject distance. The 75mm finder simply has a dotted line near the top to indicate framing at close distance.

I like the funky Bessa-T, especially for fast zone-focus with lenses 25mm and wider. Despite the big bright view, I try to avoid external viewfinders when possible. They stick up, making the camera less sleek. They fall off and get lost or damaged. They have to be changed when you change to a different lens, as from a 28 to a 21 for instance. Don't forget the cost. When not in use they need to be protected, yet associated with their lens. Ready cases won't fit with the finder on the body. I don't use the T much, preferring a body with a built-in viewfinder for the lens I want to use.

Ok! You might like 'em anyway! You could always slide a 35mm finder on top of the R2a if it helps you work faster and better. I'm just thinking the R3a would lock you into that choice. The R3z's 1:1 viewfinder magnification is attractive for fast work with a 50 or 75. The Leica M's option of .58x, .72x, and .85x viewfinder magnifications has been the topic of innumerable discussions online, and surely plenty of sleepless nights trying to choose! Your turn. 😀

If you're contemplating a 50/2.5 I believe another new RFF member has a nice used black one for sale in another thread. I recently got one myself, and have uploaded some sample pics to the RFF Gallery accompanied by corner crops to assess quality.
 
Doug,

I think I understand what you're saying. You mean that by using the internal finder, I would have less parallax to adjust for in framing when zone focusing (among the other things I would have to worry about if I used an external finder) - is that right?

If I use the internal finder, let's say there is a subject in the frame within two meters (but I'm zone focused at 3 meters). Within this distance, I would have to adjust horizontally and vertically right? If I use the external finder, I only need to adjust one way - vertically (if I am holding the camera horizontally). Sorry for the language here, hope it's not confusing - unless my thinking is of course.

Only adjusting for parallax in one direction would be simpler the way I'm "imagining" it. I would just need to do some testing for objects at different distances and then develop a feel for it over time.

If I am confused here, please point it out - because I really am new to this and I would like to know!
 
Hi, I was sorta rambling on... 🙂 The external finder is sitting very near the same horizontal position as the lens, so no horizontal parallax error, but there's quite a bit of parallax in the vertical direction that will need manual correction at close distances. This will be a bother when you're most hurried, and at close distances you may well have annoying framing errors.

The amount of any parallax error depends on the distance between the centerlines of the lens and viewfinder compared to the distance to the subject. The distance between centerlines of the lens and body viewfinder may not be much different on the Bessa from the distance between lens and external viewfinder centerlines... If so you're right that at least the external one has parallax error in only one plane. And the total parallax error may not be much different either way.

But the body viewfinder does have the advantage of a parallax correction applied for the distance the lens is zone-focused to. And that should be close enough for other distances within your DoF not to worry about.

I'll toss out an alternative to zone focusing, too... If you leave your lens focused to infinity, or at least some distance beyond your expected subject distance, then you're always bringing the RF into focus from the same direction, and rotating the lens in the same direction. The trick is to stop when the RF images coincide and zap the shutter release. No fiddling back and forth, close enough is good enough!

This is how some professionals have done it, and it's very fast. With practice and skill the focus is spot-on, even at wide aperture. Obviously this doesn't work at all with an external finder.

Making this easier is the focus tab on the lens, and this brings up another focusing trick... At infinity the tab is always at the lower right, and with practice you'll get a feel for the tab positions for different distances. Then eyeballing the subject, you can simply focus by feel, bring up the camera to get a fast framing and snap. Now this does work fine with an external finder. I need to work on getting better at both these techniques.

Long lenses and fast lenses usually don't have tabs. Some people don't like focus tabs on lenses, but they do have their uses!
 
I've heard about these focusing techniques. The focus tab technique is another version of zone focusing. The first technique you describe I'd like to try to develop actually. This is a different way of focusing than on an SLR where you focus back and forth.

Having said that, I'm now leaning in the direction of an R2 or R2a at this point. What you've said makes sense in the end and when I balance everything out, it may be easier overall to just use the internal viewfinder. I know the differences between the two cameras (AE being the main one). The R2a isn't expected to be released until December here in Tokyo if I remember correctly. So, it's a question of patience for me.

Well Doug - I appreciate your talking this through with me. Every photographer has their own quirks and ways of shooting but it certainly helps to get some sound advice!
 
Doug I completely 2nd your comment about always having the lens at infinity. I too came from an SLR only background and I found this an invaluable bit of advice (from Al Kaplan on PN).

Allen, I've been reading the posts of Huck Finn and Doug, and I use a 50mm a lot so the R3A would be my choice. But even if I used wide-angles more I would still get it because of the AE. That to me is just a huge feature since I am so used to it coming from SLRs.
 
I know it may not be "the classic way" but I too like AE. I use C41 negative films and set the ISO to 2/3 stop less than the film's rated speed. This gives me some leeway on the exposure.

So I guess I'm spoiled too, and I think that started with the Pentax ES. I like AE on the Minolta CLE, Bronica, and Fuji.

AE really helps in changing conditions when reaction speed is an issue. Otherwise I'm about as happy taking an occasional incident reading with a handheld meter.

I agree with Peter... given a choice between an R2 and an R2a, I'd certainly prefer the R2a.
 
I don't use AE as much as I used to but I do still use it occasionally. I'm leaning towards the R2a but it all just depends on how patient I can be. I've been using an Olympus OM-4t for a while and I LOVE that camera but the clack of the shutter just does me in for some situations when I'm shooting street photography. Hope the shutter sound on the R2a is improved over the R2.
 
Hey Allen,

I think you got some great photos here. I like them a lot!!!

Cheers,
Max
 
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