new kid on the forum, RF body dilemma

silent1

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Hello everybody,
I'm new to the RF world, I've been shooting with some Pentax SLRs so far, I even got a Yashica Mat TLR since a few days, but recently I've been growing this idea that I could be happy with a RF body + 1 or 2 lenses only.
I've spent the last couple of days reading tons of articles and reviews on the net, and after having drooled over black leica beauties, after having fallen in love with the Zeiss Ikon ZM, after having taken into account old russian RF bodies, I came to some sort of conclusion: the Voigtlander Bessa R2-R3 body.
Do you think that would be a wise choice for a RF newbie?
I think the Leica and Zeiss Ikon options would be just too... demanding for a newbie like me.

Anyway, I saw a new Bessa R3M at 499 euro on ebay. Is that a good price?
I read that the R3M is the ideal complement to the Nokton 40 1.4, for which I just got a crush looking at the pictures. Is that true? Even for somebody who wears glasses like me? Would a R2M be a better choice in case I add a telephoto lens in the future (something in the 75mm-90mm range)?

Another question: how long does it take to get accustomed to the RF "way of shooting" after years of SLR? I'm asking that because I'm heading to China for a 3-weeks vacation mid-July and I was wondering if I have enough time to: 1) buy the body + lens 2) shoot as many rolls as needed to get confidence with the camera in order to take it with me in China and leave all the heavy SLR stuff at home. I like to travel light.

Wow, i think I wrote enough for a single message, hope somebody could help me out 🙂
 
After owning a Bessa R2M, R3M, Leica M6, M7 and MP and after handling a new ZI in a shop my strong advise: Get just a Leica M.
 
Does it have to be a new camera ? There are plenty of used M Leica around and a M6 classic + 35mm Summicron-M (not the the latest ASPH version) should be available for ~ $1700.

EDIT: Welcome to the forum !!
 
It does not really matter which brand or rangefinder camera you choose, although most of us here personally prefer the Leica M series, compared to the Zeiss Ikon ZM, Voigtlander Bessa, Konica Hexar etc...

The rangefinder camera was very easy and quick for me to learn to use, I honestly don't think that You'll have trouble using it ;-)

Anyway the R3M would certainly be a great start in Rangefinder Photography !!!

By the way, Welcome to the best photography forum !!!
 
Just a couple of thoughts - if you wear glasses then the R3 frameline with 40 may be difficult.

I've got a ZI and an R2m and I prefer the ZI, but the I ought to given th price difference.

You might want to read Mike Johnston's comments on The Online Photographer - under 'The Leica as Teacher'.

Mike
 
Thank you everyone for your answers.

I would gladly go for the Leica but I'm still confused about all those models. I see that M6 and M4 are among the most popular ones, but I still have to understand why 🙂

The Bessa alternative seems to be an easy way to start: I could try with no big initial expense how I fit in the RT philosophy.
If I feel confident that this is the way to go, then I would still have time to switch to a Leica in the future.

Mike, your comment about glasses is a bit worrying indeed, I'm going to read all those thousands comments on that article (actually the one article which made me start thinking seriously about getting a RF camera). There's a like-new R3A on ebay right now at 300 euro, I think I am going to place an offer for that one and see how it goes.

Thanks!
 
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btw, i don't believe MOST of us prefer leica, many here prefer other rf cameras as well.
some even feel that leica is an ancient design in need of a real update.

they were once the best built camera and lenses made but the new ones are no better than some others today.

going with a bessa is a good start, value wise. don't get too worried about the eyeglasses and viewfinders as with rf cameras it's never a precise frame we use anyway.
 
The nice thing about a buying a used Leica M for a fair price is that you can usually resell it and not lose money if you decide that its not for you.

If you bid on that M3, keep in mind that it doesn't have framelines for 35mm lenses. It only has framelines for 50mm, 90mm and 135mm. The only Leica model with 40mm framelines is the Leica CL. I think that the Leica M4-P is a very nice camera to start with.

The Leica FAQ is a good place to start if you want to find out about the different models:
http://www.nemeng.com/leica/ndx_m.shtml

Also, since you live in Rome, get in touch with Luigi. He may have a perfect camera for you.
http://www.leicatime.com/
 
I'd go with a second hand Bessa R2A/M, 35 lenses are much more common than 40s, plus the 40 framelines are supposedly hard to see with glasses, so a R3M would effectively limit you to 50 and above, you wouldn't want to limit yourself like that so early on. And with second hand you won't lose much if/when you want to upgrade to a Leica or Zeiss Ikon.

Also, I wouldn't recommend the Nokton 40, the bokeh is quite messy and distracting. Some good value lenses that come to mind is the Leica Summicron 40 and CV Nokton 50/1.5, if you're willing to spend a bit more, perhaps a Summicron 50, Zeiss Planar 50 or the two Zeiss 35 Biogons.
 
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I'd go with a second hand Bessa R2A/M, 35 lenses are much more common than 40s, plus the 40 framelines are supposedly hard to see with glasses, so a R3M would effectively limit you to 50 and above, you wouldn't want to limit yourself like that so early on. And with second hand you won't lose much if/when you want to upgrade to a Leica or Zeiss Ikon.

Also, I wouldn't recommend the Nokton 40, the bokeh is quite messy and distracting. Some good value lenses that come to mind is the Leica Summicron 40 and CV Nokton 50/1.5, if you're willing to spend a bit more, perhaps a Summicron 50, Zeiss Planar 50 or the two Zeiss 35 Biogons.
Disagree. A Bessa R3M/R3A is a great way to learn the "trade". I wear glasses and the framelines are not a bother. see backalley above. Also I think the 40mm is the sweet spot. Go for it. Then later you can move up if needed.
 
No, the R3A with a 40 mm and glasses is just a stretch. Even with a 50mm it is not comfortable. If you go the Bessa route, get the "A" version as it has AE, and will save you tons of missed shots because you were fiddling with the exposure. The prime road in rangefinders starts with a 35mm lens, so get a good lens first, there are lots of them including Leica, Zeiss, CV, Hexanon and some SM older alternatives, but get at least an f2.0 one. A better body would be the R2A. Zeiss Ikon would be the best, as it is the best rangefinder ever made anyway, especially for who uses glasses.
 
No, the R3A with a 40 mm and glasses is just a stretch. Even with a 50mm it is not comfortable. If you go the Bessa route, get the "A" version as it has AE, and will save you tons of missed shots because you were fiddling with the exposure. The prime road in rangefinders starts with a 35mm lens, so get a good lens first, there are lots of them including Leica, Zeiss, CV, Hexanon and some SM older alternatives, but get at least an f2.0 one. A better body would be the R2A. Zeiss Ikon would be the best, as it is the best rangefinder ever made anyway, especially for who uses glasses.
Sorry, still have to disagree. I have a ZM (best damn RF IMHO) and Bessa R3M. R3M works wonderfully for me with 40mm and 50mm and I wear glasses, never a problem. Yes AE is usually quicker, but Manual forces you to learn your subject and really decide on the "Perfect Exposure" not just the "Correct exposure". That said, you won't go wrong with an R2M/A with a good 35mm lens. main thing is take photos and lots of them to learn your hardware.
 
Test your cams before going on a long trip and have backup, including backup batteries for the meter. There are so many options but I dont know if Id want to be on the bottom of the learning curve embarking on a trip. I would suggest the Konica AF rangfinder with AE and the fixed 35mm/2.0 that is as good as the Leica 35mm summicron. About $500 (US). If you have eye issues get a diopter. Enjoy trip and welcome aboard.
 
Thanks again for your answers. I can't really say I'm less confused than before but it's good to hear so many opinions. The thing is, I can't find a used R2A/M anywhere right now, and this one, as I understood, would better fit the 40/1.4 and shorter lenses.
Plus, I think 35mmdelux is right, maybe I should just carry my trusted Pentax MX with my two favourites lenses (43/1.9 and 77/1.8) on my trip. Then, when I come back, I will have all the time to evaluate all possibilities, Zeiss Ikon included 🙂
I sent an email to Luigi and he already answered me, asking me to call him tomorrow.
He said he has several, maybe too many Leicas...

I'll keep you informed 🙂
 
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The Pentax MX is a small camera. You won't be saving much space if you get an RF. If you get a Leica, you likely won't be saving any weight. On the other hand, if you use a tripod, you'll likely will not need it with an RF. What an RF will give you is a different type of shooting experience. You get a bright viewfinder with infinite DOF and the ability to see outside the frame; a quieter shutter, the ability to do 1/16th and even 1/8th hand-held, etc.

Luigi sent me his catalogue about a month ago. He does have too many Leicas!
 
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As originally stated it seems you already know what you want and your comments keep returning to the Bessa. Per your blog and flickr images it appears you know how to shoot so I wouldn't worry about adjusting to a RF. Some people just don't like the RF style, similar to a TLR, but this is RF land so...

I think your style will work well with a RF, whichever one you choose I don't think the camera will make much difference. Do you enjoy the manual shooting of your Yashica TLR? How do you shoot your SLR, manual-auto-AE? Personally I like the AE feature because I still fully control the camera but it is more convenient. Match your new camera to your shooting style.

Mid-July is still many, many shooting days away and plenty of time to practice. Although I wouldn't rush into purchasing to meet your schedule. Are you considering a back-up camera for your important trip? Your SLR and one lens perhaps?

"Ms. Puzzled" is fantastic. Was this a candid shot of the couple?
 
Seeking to learn which camera to buy on this forum won't be terribly different than asking a group of men to name the most beautiful woman in the world. All you'll get are a bunch of different opinions - each just as correct as any other.

Fortunately, you really can't go wrong here. Just pick a couple lenses you want to use and get a camera with frame lines that match.
M3: 50, 90, 135
M2: 35, 50, 90
M4: 35, 50, 90, 135
etc. etc.

Of course if you want a built-in meter, your options are going to be more limited.

Personally, I love M bodies. Very rugged. Mechanical. Of course there are others (let's call them savages😀) who prefer other cameras.
 
"Ms. Puzzled" is fantastic. Was this a candid shot of the couple?
Thanks! Yes it is a candid shot.

Thank you for the precious advices. My Pentax MX is manual mode only so I am already familiar with manual shooting, but when I was using my DSLR I was shooting aperture priority most of the time, so I appreciate AE as well.

I'm getting to know the differences between the various Leica M models, I think a M6 would also suits my needs. Plus, it looks much cooler than the Bessa. And looking at the prices of newoldcamera.com it doesn't seem so much expensive as I initially thought.
Of course, a used R2A would likely be 1/3rd of the price, provided that I manage to find one... plus, it has the "anonymity" bonus, which would allow me to go into the wild pretty much unnoticed.

Mmh, still have to make up my mind.
 
The hardest thing about an M6 is loading it. Put a crease at the edge of the leader before inserting it into the take up spool and, most importantly, make sure the holes in the fill catch the sprockets. Use you fingers to feel it. It should not take you long to walk, hold a conversation, and load an M6. Also, with the M6 classic if the battery fails the camera will still work. (Take an extra battery.)
 
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