DelDavis
.
Agreed. I'm no expert, but this looks like a good move on the technological and marketing fronts. Leica needs to reestablish itself as a premier manufacturer of high end professional gear for the modern photographer. The rest (i.e. digital rangefinders) will follow. In my humble opinion.
That said, I want to see a new digital rangefinder that costs less than $6,200, post-haste! Zeiss? Cosina? Nikon?
Ray Nalley
Well-known
Leica has to know that they aren't going to sell many M8.2's. If this move indicates a serious commitment to autofocus dSLR's, none of this is good news for RF users as it makes it even more unlikely that an M9 will ever be built. If there is a trickle down, it will be to an autofocus digital R, not a rangefinder. But, once you get back into the $5,000 price range, I see no way Leica will ever compete with Nikon and Canon in the dSLR bracket. What's a company to do? Interesting times.
iridium7777
Established
i could care less about the camera, but i really see it the same way that you do, though. to me, it seems much like porsche coming out with the cayenne a couple years back. they were doing ok, nothing great. people complained about the cayenne, purists cringed.
porsche had to drive the cayenne to events and tell people they were still building sports cars, this was just something extra on the side. as of yesterday, thanks to the success of cayenne, they just bought a majority stake in vw. this reminds me much of the same “gamble”.
porsche had to drive the cayenne to events and tell people they were still building sports cars, this was just something extra on the side. as of yesterday, thanks to the success of cayenne, they just bought a majority stake in vw. this reminds me much of the same “gamble”.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
This S2 could be quite a good camera for nature photographers. Easier than lugging around a 67 or 45 that's for sure.
infrequent
Well-known
new drinking game rules:
1. any time ray mentions 'leica', take a swig.
2. any time ray mentions 'interesting times', double up.
3. rewind, rinse, repeat.
1. any time ray mentions 'leica', take a swig.
2. any time ray mentions 'interesting times', double up.
3. rewind, rinse, repeat.
Matt(1pt4)
Established
In that sense, this seems like a good move. The APS-C and 35mm digital market seems to be moving towards the commodity stage; is there really that much difference between any of the Canons, Nikons, Sonys or Pentaxes? The larger than 35mm digital market is mostly made up of digital backs grafted onto exitsting 645 cameras, so there was an opportunity there, one that Mamiya tried to capitalize on with the ZD. It could work for leica.
The RF was originaly designed to provide a lighter alternative to the heavy plate cameras of the time. The S2 seems true to that heritage, and that's something leica can be proud of.
kevin m
Veteran
You sure about that? Remember this quote, just days before the S2 was unveiled:
Roger has been claiming, repeatedly, that Leica is a luxury brand, (and has always been so!) and here they go and unveil an entirely new camera line aimed squarely at the professional photographer market, which is what we "nay-sayers" have been asking for all along: innovation for the working professional. (It must also be pointed out that the S2 was initiated by the ousted American interloper, Mr. Lee.
)With any luck, the S2 will be a smashing success, and the technology will trickle down to an updated digital RF. Keep the M8 for the traditionalists who love the classic M3 shape, but don't be afraid to break new ground for the M9. M8 = MP; M9 = M7.
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kevin m
Veteran
Remember Spiro Agnew? "Nattering nabobs of negativity" comes to mind.
cam
the need for speed
i disagree. i don't own an M8 but am seriously looking at the M8.2. i think there will be enough interest in the new one (to be honest, though, i would have preferred an 'a la carte' version like the MP -- ooh, and i would love the ability to have a cocking shutter, please).
regardless, you're talking apples and oranges -- the M is a completely different system. i think this move with the S2 will strengthen Leica as a company and, thusly, will strengthen the whole line, M inclusive.
Ray Nalley
Well-known
infrequent, I think this is a great move for Leica. A completely new direction. Something they needed to do 10 years ago. I'm just not sure it's something folks heavily invested in Leica rangefinders should applaud.
infrequent
Well-known
@ray - same here. i am happy they are trying something different even if it still ends in tears. it's the excuses put forth by folks like roger hicks -- "it can't be done" -- "there are no resources" -- that really puts me off.
kevin m
Veteran
Not only that, but the revisionist history of "Leica has always been a luxury brand," when it was technological innovation that got the company started!
Movie film? In that tiny little camera? Absurd!
peter_n
Veteran
Why so negative? Leica's agreement with Phase One includes sensor, firmware, software, distribution and service. If anyone knows the pro MF business it is Phase One. Their products are also really quite good.
WRT to comments in the thread about trickle-down effects, the two Summilux wide-angles announced last week are the by-product of lens research for the S2.
georgef
Well-known
Great move by LEICA!
Note: this is NOT a rangefinder by LEICA, hence introduced at PHOTOKINA, not RFF, he he. So the refferences to DRFs are not relevant here.
The question is, what is the next step for a camera company that produces a very unique camera system ( the M I am reffering to)? you produce a new unique camera system. If you cannot compete in a weight class, move to the next weight class.
I think its a very promising prototype, and it offers something not found out there.
I also think this camera will be in the next BATMAN movie!
Note: this is NOT a rangefinder by LEICA, hence introduced at PHOTOKINA, not RFF, he he. So the refferences to DRFs are not relevant here.
The question is, what is the next step for a camera company that produces a very unique camera system ( the M I am reffering to)? you produce a new unique camera system. If you cannot compete in a weight class, move to the next weight class.
I think its a very promising prototype, and it offers something not found out there.
I also think this camera will be in the next BATMAN movie!
dazedgonebye
Veteran
Looks awsome to me.
With $50,000 to spare and no family to care for, I'd buy it up with all lenses.
Seriously, I have no idea how pros will receive this. Seems a good niche to me, but what do I know?
With $50,000 to spare and no family to care for, I'd buy it up with all lenses.
Seriously, I have no idea how pros will receive this. Seems a good niche to me, but what do I know?
georgef
Well-known
Not only that, but the revisionist history of "Leica has always been a luxury brand," when it was technological innovation that got the company started!
Movie film? In that tiny little camera? Absurd!
I agree. LEICA only became a luxury brand from the 80's and on!
Frank1969
Member
Given the fact that Leica and electronics do not match and have never matched to be realistic, I would not want to bet on the S2. I wonder who this camera is aimed at. Probably snobs who like it because it has "Leica" on it. I can't imagine any professionals since they use either Nikon or Canon ff camera's that are cheaper, offer excellent quality, have more and cheaper lenses in the line-up, have probably a faster AF should you need it, or they use Hasselblad (or Leaf) digital systems. Sure, the same price or more expensive (at least the digital back) but more versatile, a bigger sensor, cheaper lenses (again).
Leica should have put their efforts in a good and affordable digital M. I am still hoping for a Nikon rangefinder...
Leica should have put their efforts in a good and affordable digital M. I am still hoping for a Nikon rangefinder...
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
Modern advertising pros require WiFi tethering so that clients can sit under a shady tree and drink tea and wine while reviewing the shots as they are produced. (While they are paying top €€€ for an expensive campaign they now demand to be involved from start to finish).
Wedding photogs, on the other hand, require a dual-card slot to simultaneously save images on two different CF/SD cards as well as a radio-based TTL wireless flash solution.
I cant see this model have any one of these three necessary features.
In conclusion I can only see this thing being bought and used by nature photographers and dentists, not the advertising and wedding photographers that Leica owner believes will buy it.
Wedding photogs, on the other hand, require a dual-card slot to simultaneously save images on two different CF/SD cards as well as a radio-based TTL wireless flash solution.
I cant see this model have any one of these three necessary features.
In conclusion I can only see this thing being bought and used by nature photographers and dentists, not the advertising and wedding photographers that Leica owner believes will buy it.
tmfabian
I met a man once...
1) you can get CF and SD cards with wifi built into them
2) the s2 does have dual slots
3) ain't no one got radio wireless ttl...it's all based on IR pulses.
4) /fail
Turtle
Veteran
$50k body only
but they might do a promtional kit with a standard zoom for $75KNo, seriously, good for Leica if this has the IQ it should (assuming its real). The price is likely to be stratosperic tho..... Could be great for landscape and studio photogs
....some comments have once again come back to the notion that this camera will be great because Leica lenses are the best (yawn) and that this will define the system or give it a special edge. I think the system will have far bigger issues dictating its success/failure and the lenses will in some respects come rather far down the list. After all, Hassy/Mamiya etc optics are hardly turds are they?