chris91387
Well-known
hey all, i'm a long time RFF'er but i just got an NEX 7 and i have a question.
i just mounted my 1984 50mm summicron with a metabones adapter and the images feel a bit soft. they don't feel as sharp as i remember when i used this lens with my M4 back in the day.
i've been using the focus peaking and am a bit surprised by the amount of "play" in the focusing without the peaks moving. so i've tried zooming in and focusing that way but when i get into Lightroom i'm still not seeing that tack sharp leica look that i expect. don't get me wrong, it's not fuzzy or anything, just not real sharp. i have the camera in shutter speed priority with auto iso. i'm usually keeping the lens around f2-f4.
i can send someone a raw file if you want to see. just PM me your email address.
does anyone have any secrets to getting good sharp images?
thanks.
i just mounted my 1984 50mm summicron with a metabones adapter and the images feel a bit soft. they don't feel as sharp as i remember when i used this lens with my M4 back in the day.
i've been using the focus peaking and am a bit surprised by the amount of "play" in the focusing without the peaks moving. so i've tried zooming in and focusing that way but when i get into Lightroom i'm still not seeing that tack sharp leica look that i expect. don't get me wrong, it's not fuzzy or anything, just not real sharp. i have the camera in shutter speed priority with auto iso. i'm usually keeping the lens around f2-f4.
i can send someone a raw file if you want to see. just PM me your email address.
does anyone have any secrets to getting good sharp images?
thanks.
Attachments
segedi
RFicianado
Is it less sharp than a native, e mount lens?
It might just be the antialiasing in digital. Have you tried digitally sharpening the file?
I din't think any digital with an AA filter looks sharp straight out I'd the camera. It can be a bit disappointing pixel peeping, but the files can be sharpened a bit in post and at normal viewing size and distance, the images should look just fine.
It might just be the antialiasing in digital. Have you tried digitally sharpening the file?
I din't think any digital with an AA filter looks sharp straight out I'd the camera. It can be a bit disappointing pixel peeping, but the files can be sharpened a bit in post and at normal viewing size and distance, the images should look just fine.
peterm1
Veteran
I found that focus peaking takes quite a bit of getting used to - despite the way people rave about it. The main issue is what level of sensitivity you set in the menu. If you make it too sensitive then too much of the image shows up as in focus (according to the area highlighted by focus peaking) where as much of it is in fact not at peak focus). There is natural a temptation to use high sensitivity as this makes the area supposedly in focus much more apparent and focussing easier - right? But don't do it.
The solution I found is to set the sensitivity to the lowest I can get away for a specific image (which also means being willing to change settings a lot - not the easiest thing with a NEX). I also found that it helps to change the focus peaking colour depending on the specific image. With an image shot in bright sunlight a red colour seems to work best for me in focus peaking (unless of course there is a lot of red in the image - a barn perhpas or flowers) . In dim conditions, yellow works best (similarly unless there is a lot of yellow in the image). But doing this is especially important if you have done what I suggest above and only use the lowest level of focus peaking sensitivity you can get away with. So the answer is definitely not "one size fits all" or "set and forget"!
The other thing that helps me a lot is to use the zoom focus assist function in combination with FP. By zooming in you can see much more clearly what part of the image has maximum focus and quite deliberately move it in or out. If focus is critical I have found I really must use this feature.
So thats it. I also have a Lumix GF1 which has the zoom feature for focus assist but not the focus peaking. Oddly for some reason I find this easier to focus than my NEX whith or without focus peaking.
Good luck.
The solution I found is to set the sensitivity to the lowest I can get away for a specific image (which also means being willing to change settings a lot - not the easiest thing with a NEX). I also found that it helps to change the focus peaking colour depending on the specific image. With an image shot in bright sunlight a red colour seems to work best for me in focus peaking (unless of course there is a lot of red in the image - a barn perhpas or flowers) . In dim conditions, yellow works best (similarly unless there is a lot of yellow in the image). But doing this is especially important if you have done what I suggest above and only use the lowest level of focus peaking sensitivity you can get away with. So the answer is definitely not "one size fits all" or "set and forget"!
The other thing that helps me a lot is to use the zoom focus assist function in combination with FP. By zooming in you can see much more clearly what part of the image has maximum focus and quite deliberately move it in or out. If focus is critical I have found I really must use this feature.
So thats it. I also have a Lumix GF1 which has the zoom feature for focus assist but not the focus peaking. Oddly for some reason I find this easier to focus than my NEX whith or without focus peaking.
Good luck.
rodl
Established
I agree with Peter about how to best use focus peaking. You should also remember that FP is contrast driven so it will work differently with different lenses. It seems counter intuitive but very fast lenses with narrow DOF are actually easier to focus with it than lenses such as wide angles as long as they have sufficient contrast. I also believe that there may have been some refinements to focus peaking in the NEX-6 since I haven't needed to change sensitivity anywhere near as much as with the 5N. It's mostly been set on medium since I got it.
Regarding your Summicron 50, how long has it been since you last used it? Is the NEX the first digital camera you've used it on?
Regarding your Summicron 50, how long has it been since you last used it? Is the NEX the first digital camera you've used it on?
kanzlr
Hexaneur
that, and that 24MP APS-C sensor takes pretty fast shutter speeds to yield an image that is sharp at 100% zoom. If the image looks good at 20x30cm size / A4, it is in the same ballpark as a sharp 35mm negative I'd say.
chris91387
Well-known
ok, i'm getting better. thanks for the help.
general question, does focus peaking work when using the focus zoom feature? i'm looking through the viewfinder and am getting good at the thumb zoom button which engages the zoom feature but i don't see any peaking.
peterm1, changing sensitivity to low seems to have helped a bit.
rodl, i haven't used the lens in years and yes, first time on a digital.
general question, does focus peaking work when using the focus zoom feature? i'm looking through the viewfinder and am getting good at the thumb zoom button which engages the zoom feature but i don't see any peaking.
peterm1, changing sensitivity to low seems to have helped a bit.
rodl, i haven't used the lens in years and yes, first time on a digital.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I don't have the NEX, I have the GXR with M-mount camera unit. But it has focus peaking too (two modes) as well as image magnification as focusing assists.
I found I was getting results that were slightly off the mark when I became too reliant on the focus peaking and not looking at the image. So I turned off all the focus assists and spent some time practicing with my lenses to learn how to see when they are at their sharpest in the EVF or LCD. I use high magnifications with short lenses and low magnifications with longer focal lengths.
Once I could reliably nip the sharp point without focus peaking enabled, I experimented again with the focus peaking to understand what it was showing me. I found that (on the GXR) it is most useful, most of the time, to quickly get the focus setting in the right ballpark, after which I turn it off and fine tune focus using just magnification. That nets my sharpest results.
The issue is that the point of maximum contrast and illuminated edges is very close to the best focus point, depending on the lens opening, but it isn't EXACTLY the best focus point in most cases. It like looking at still water surrounding pebbles in a dish. The focus peaking seems to be like the little edge of the water's surface tension around pebbles ... it bows a little and is slightly lower than the face of a pebble, so you have to adjust the focus ever so slightly to move the critical focus point onto the pebble, not on the bowed rim of the water's surface tension.
Of course, if you stop down a bit, the DoF becomes deep enough to mask the critical focus point and makes the focus peaking illumination somewhat wide and imprecise.
By and large, the focus peaking is a great way to rough in the focus setting quickly, but then using magnification and watching the blur-sharp-blur transition point remains the most accurate way to ascertain critical focus on a TTL camera. Just like SLRs ...
G
I found I was getting results that were slightly off the mark when I became too reliant on the focus peaking and not looking at the image. So I turned off all the focus assists and spent some time practicing with my lenses to learn how to see when they are at their sharpest in the EVF or LCD. I use high magnifications with short lenses and low magnifications with longer focal lengths.
Once I could reliably nip the sharp point without focus peaking enabled, I experimented again with the focus peaking to understand what it was showing me. I found that (on the GXR) it is most useful, most of the time, to quickly get the focus setting in the right ballpark, after which I turn it off and fine tune focus using just magnification. That nets my sharpest results.
The issue is that the point of maximum contrast and illuminated edges is very close to the best focus point, depending on the lens opening, but it isn't EXACTLY the best focus point in most cases. It like looking at still water surrounding pebbles in a dish. The focus peaking seems to be like the little edge of the water's surface tension around pebbles ... it bows a little and is slightly lower than the face of a pebble, so you have to adjust the focus ever so slightly to move the critical focus point onto the pebble, not on the bowed rim of the water's surface tension.
Of course, if you stop down a bit, the DoF becomes deep enough to mask the critical focus point and makes the focus peaking illumination somewhat wide and imprecise.
By and large, the focus peaking is a great way to rough in the focus setting quickly, but then using magnification and watching the blur-sharp-blur transition point remains the most accurate way to ascertain critical focus on a TTL camera. Just like SLRs ...
G
segedi
RFicianado
Yes it does. But it often zooms into an area that is out of focus so you won't see any peaking. You can scroll up/down/left/right when zoomed in.
And as mentioned in the previous post, it's somewhat difficult to get an accurate focus using peaking if you are at much above f/4. I tend to go to the widest aperture, use focus peaking and then stop down as needed. Takes a bit longer, but is a lot more accurate.
BTW- the GXR has much better peaking and way better implementation of zooming. With a bigger button in a much better place. But once you get the hang of the NEX, you'll either love it or get the Sigma AF lenses
peter_n
Veteran
LOL!... But once you get the hang of the NEX, you'll either love it or get the Sigma AF lenses
Lengthening the message to at least 10 characters. (Anyone know the rationale behind this?)
cosmonaut
Well-known
I had a NEX 7 and the same problem with a Summicron 50mm. I don't think the N7 works as good as other cameras with third party lenses.
peter_n
Veteran
I use Leica and Exakta lenses with my NEX-7 and the only problem area I've experienced is no contrast at the point of focus in poor light. If the light's decent you use focus zoom.
kanzlr
Hexaneur
BTW- the GXR has much better peaking and way better implementation of zooming. With a bigger button in a much better place. But once you get the hang of the NEX, you'll either love it or get the Sigma AF lenses
That. Exactly. Sold the NEX quickly after I got a good deal on the Ricoh.
The Ricoh Mode 2 works even beyond f4 as it does a high-pass filter, which does not have a contrast limit at which it kicks in, like Sonys approach, but rather always emphasizes the sharpest portion of the image. Still, focusing stopped down is still not as efficient as doing it wide open.
chris91387
Well-known
ok, i've had some time to play now and am getting better. just got the 28mm Ultron and am finding similar results with focus peaking. i'm pretty hit or miss with tack-sharpness but am always in the ballpark.
i am curious to what setting everyone is using for their "peaking level". i've tried in all three settings and it feels like "low" is the best but am still amazed by the amount of focus turning i can do and still have the peaking not show a change. i would think that the peaking would move or engage/disengage with just a small amount of turning the focus ring. like, right now, i'm focusing on an object on the wall in front of me and the focus peaking shows within a 3' change on the focus barrel. clearly that can't be correct.
i have a lens align tool that i use on my 5DMKii anMKiii. maybe i'll do a test this weekend and notate the amount of "play" and see if i notice a tendency to front or back focus. this would at least give me an idea as to which direction to err on.
i am curious to what setting everyone is using for their "peaking level". i've tried in all three settings and it feels like "low" is the best but am still amazed by the amount of focus turning i can do and still have the peaking not show a change. i would think that the peaking would move or engage/disengage with just a small amount of turning the focus ring. like, right now, i'm focusing on an object on the wall in front of me and the focus peaking shows within a 3' change on the focus barrel. clearly that can't be correct.
i have a lens align tool that i use on my 5DMKii anMKiii. maybe i'll do a test this weekend and notate the amount of "play" and see if i notice a tendency to front or back focus. this would at least give me an idea as to which direction to err on.
peter_n
Veteran
I've been using the mid level in red pretty much since getting the camera last summer. Peaking needs contrast so if it isn't there you need to use the focus zoom.
Paddy C
Unused film collector
I've given up on manual focus lenses on my Nex 5N. Just for now.
There's no question you can get excellent results but I've concluded the following:
1. It's better stopped down (greater depth of field). Using a fast lens is very difficult and, IMO, impossible to reliably focus with focus peaking.
2. I don't see any optical advantages in using a fast adapted 50mm over the Sony AF 50mm. For example.
Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play with and I've nailed some shots I like but it's just not reliable enough for me.
It's possible I need more practice but I've done some testing and tried different configurations based on what is suggested around the web and haven't seen much improvement.
Another issue that hasn't been mentioned is camera shake. At times, I've found the 5N (no viewfinder) more difficult to stabilize then my DSLR. So you have to be careful about shutter speed and good technique.
There's no question you can get excellent results but I've concluded the following:
1. It's better stopped down (greater depth of field). Using a fast lens is very difficult and, IMO, impossible to reliably focus with focus peaking.
2. I don't see any optical advantages in using a fast adapted 50mm over the Sony AF 50mm. For example.
Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play with and I've nailed some shots I like but it's just not reliable enough for me.
It's possible I need more practice but I've done some testing and tried different configurations based on what is suggested around the web and haven't seen much improvement.
Another issue that hasn't been mentioned is camera shake. At times, I've found the 5N (no viewfinder) more difficult to stabilize then my DSLR. So you have to be careful about shutter speed and good technique.
Bimjo
Member
Focus peaking does become easier over time. I've pretty much settled on using MF lenses off a tripod for my deliberate shots and using the Sony AF lenses for walk about touristy type shots. Seems to be working for me.
Steven Dooley
Established
I've appreciated all the comments in this thread since I recently bought the NEX-6 to use with my Leica lenses.
Other than a Novoflex, can one of you suggest the 2nd best M adapter to buy?
Other than a Novoflex, can one of you suggest the 2nd best M adapter to buy?
peter_n
Veteran
A lot of people seem to use the Metabones and I've not read about problems with it. Some of the no-name adapters on eBay are OK too but it's a crap shoot. I have an Exakta adapter from eBay and it's rock solid, and a helicoid Leica adapter from there that has very slight slippage but is usable.
If you don't live in the US (or know someone) you can buy the Novoflex directly from the company in Germany at a very reasonable price. Their US distributor HP Marketing is responsible for the ripoff markup in this country.
If you don't live in the US (or know someone) you can buy the Novoflex directly from the company in Germany at a very reasonable price. Their US distributor HP Marketing is responsible for the ripoff markup in this country.
cz23
-
I use a black & white display with yellow medium peaking. Could the lack of change you're seeing be due to DOF? Maybe try larger apertures.
I wish there were a way to put a small box around the desired focus area and peak only that area. I find all the peaking details pretty distracting. You have to make an effort to ignore them and concentrate only on the small area you that is your focus point.
John
I wish there were a way to put a small box around the desired focus area and peak only that area. I find all the peaking details pretty distracting. You have to make an effort to ignore them and concentrate only on the small area you that is your focus point.
John
chris91387
Well-known
i'm using the metabones adapter. and i got it in red....ya know, for the fun of it.
i strictly bought the NEX so i could use my old M lenses. i have no interest in using the new sony lenses. if i want AF speed then i'll grab my 5D. for some reason i kept all my M glass from years ago and only got rid of my leica film bodies. i guess i made a good choice since the lenses are holding their value and i have no doubt that we're only getting better with M8/M9 alternatives in the future. my 5Ds are amazing but i wanted to slow down and try to enjoy photography more. like when i was a kid shooting my nikon FM...slow and deliberate. manual everything...that's how i learned. these "new fangled" cameras don't allow for that anymore. i have a 4gb SD card in my NEX and i'd take a 1GB if i could ever find one. i miss having only 36 exposures as it really makes you think and take your time. this is why i picked up the NEX.
for now, i will make the NEX work for me. someday (maybe this year?) there will be a full frame version and i will buy it immediately. this mirrorless technology is only going to get better and someone will fine a way to adapt M lenses to them. i'm excited for the future.
i strictly bought the NEX so i could use my old M lenses. i have no interest in using the new sony lenses. if i want AF speed then i'll grab my 5D. for some reason i kept all my M glass from years ago and only got rid of my leica film bodies. i guess i made a good choice since the lenses are holding their value and i have no doubt that we're only getting better with M8/M9 alternatives in the future. my 5Ds are amazing but i wanted to slow down and try to enjoy photography more. like when i was a kid shooting my nikon FM...slow and deliberate. manual everything...that's how i learned. these "new fangled" cameras don't allow for that anymore. i have a 4gb SD card in my NEX and i'd take a 1GB if i could ever find one. i miss having only 36 exposures as it really makes you think and take your time. this is why i picked up the NEX.
for now, i will make the NEX work for me. someday (maybe this year?) there will be a full frame version and i will buy it immediately. this mirrorless technology is only going to get better and someone will fine a way to adapt M lenses to them. i'm excited for the future.