J J Kapsberger
Well-known
True, I'm no expert in marketing, but one thing I do know is that even if a business invents a new market, they first have to be convinced there's a possibility. How do they know there's a possibility. By knowing their customers. How do they know their customers? By caring very much about what the customers want or need.
As for the 'must haves', they wouldn't be out there for sale if first the producers/sellers hadn't become convinced beforehand of their marketability.
I would define 'inventing a new market' as discovering a demand and satisfying that demand.
slm
Formerly nextreme
Well, I haven't done any analysis, but if you look at digital medium format vs. dslr, it is a niche market and a significant one, and there are players in that market that seem to be making go at it (Mamiya, Leaf, Blad). If Nikon, identified it as a market they could target and bring value to, then maybe this rumored camera is a way to penetrate that market while differentiating themselves from the current players. No ?
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
The law requiring lead and arsenic free environmental glass went into effect in Japan two years ago. It was probably not worth their while given the small market to update their LF line.
J J Kapsberger
Well-known
My point is, if you haven't done analysis how can you say (without merely speculating) that the market is significant? And the fact that Mamiya, Leaf and Blad are involved in the market in question suggests that the market isn't being ignored. I'm sure Nikon knows about that market. I'm sure they've evaluated that market. Any decision on their part not to enter that market would be based on careful analysis, not their choosing to ignore it.
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
Nikon Once attempted to produce a 1200-1700 Manual focus super Telephoto zoom lens!!
They didn't sell that many, it was priced around $80,000 last century!!
Believe me you....
Kiu
slm
Formerly nextreme
We are talking about a rumored camera, eh ? How could we be doing anything but speculating ? But to explain my thinking behind what I'm saying, I believe the market is significant because Leaf, Mamiya and Blad are continuously creating and enhancing products for that market. Of course, what I consider as being significant may not be significant for others. But no, I can't quantify it (don't have the numbers).
I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon would be looking to that market, the smaller format dslr is very competitive, maybe they want to diversify a bit ? And isn't Pentax still a possible contender with a digital 645, or did they confirm there wouldn't be one ?
infrequent
Well-known
yes there is no innovation left in a niche market with two or three major players such as hasselblad and sinar with products that are priced in the thousands! what is nikon thinking!!
the reason why this product is in the works: because when everyone and their cousin can carry dSLR and shoot weddings, what will the real photogs bring to the table? why nikon is doing it: because they bloody can!
the reason why this product is in the works: because when everyone and their cousin can carry dSLR and shoot weddings, what will the real photogs bring to the table? why nikon is doing it: because they bloody can!
Actually the photo above is faked, here is what happened for good (photo press guys must always change the reality for their own business sake) :
Jailhouse Rock ??? Hmmmmm, and a left handed Fender Stratocaster too, just like Jimi! Nice
JonR
Well-known
Check this out:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/nikon-readying.html
Nikon medium, 48 Mpixel, camera rumours.... text copied below, full article check out the weblink above...
------------------
We've been watching a few rumors drifting around in the past weeks regarding a possible new large format sensor from Nikon. A tip-off received yesterday by Nikon Watch ties them all neatly together.
The background: Nikon put out a print advertisement in Rangefinder magazine, regarding an announcement to be made at next year's WPPI (Wedding & Portrait Photographers International) conference. The teaser reads "Don't miss it. It's gonna be BIG!"
This subtle hint combines with a leak to Nikon Rumors which seems to show the specs of a new, larger sensor, called MX Format. The final piece of the puzzle comes from the afore-mentioned Nikon Watch: A reader tells them that the MX sensor will be a huge 48 x 48 mm. That's right, a decidedly old-school medium format square sensor. A big sensor that will sport a whopping 48 megapixels.
This certainly ties in with Nikon's current strategy. The D3 and D700 both have a relatively low pixel-count for their sensor sizes, resulting in some very clean low-light performance. Instead of just squeezing more pixels onto the same chip, it looks like Nikon might be keeping the same pixel density and just making the whole thing bigger.
Nikon Watch's source continues: The sensor will be similar in design to the D3 sensor and the camera itself will be able to use existing FX (full frame) lenses via an adapter. This will give a crop factor of 0.5x -- pop on a 50mm lens and it will act like a 25mm lens. It will also shoot rectangular pictures by cropping the image from the sensor, which means that you can choose either landscape or portrait orientation without actually moving the camera. Finally, the camera wil be cheap. Not D60 cheap, but a lot less than the current $40,000 offering from Hasselblad.
Now, allow me a little speculation if you will, in the style of the Scooby Doo gang piecing the evidence together. The official Nikon ad appeared in Rangefinder magazine. The announcement will be made at a conference for wedding photographers, a group who shoot a lot in dark places (churches and wedding receptions) and like to print very large pictures. Could we be looking at a giant rangefinder along the lines of the old Mamiya 7? A rangefinder with stratospheric ISO settings? It would certainly be a lot easier to handle than a big medium format DSLR.
We'll see. If this comes true (and we certainly hope it will), then it will be one more victory for the new, revitalized Nikon. Come on, Canon -- let's see what you've got.
-------------------
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/nikon-readying.html
Nikon medium, 48 Mpixel, camera rumours.... text copied below, full article check out the weblink above...
------------------
We've been watching a few rumors drifting around in the past weeks regarding a possible new large format sensor from Nikon. A tip-off received yesterday by Nikon Watch ties them all neatly together.
The background: Nikon put out a print advertisement in Rangefinder magazine, regarding an announcement to be made at next year's WPPI (Wedding & Portrait Photographers International) conference. The teaser reads "Don't miss it. It's gonna be BIG!"
This subtle hint combines with a leak to Nikon Rumors which seems to show the specs of a new, larger sensor, called MX Format. The final piece of the puzzle comes from the afore-mentioned Nikon Watch: A reader tells them that the MX sensor will be a huge 48 x 48 mm. That's right, a decidedly old-school medium format square sensor. A big sensor that will sport a whopping 48 megapixels.
This certainly ties in with Nikon's current strategy. The D3 and D700 both have a relatively low pixel-count for their sensor sizes, resulting in some very clean low-light performance. Instead of just squeezing more pixels onto the same chip, it looks like Nikon might be keeping the same pixel density and just making the whole thing bigger.
Nikon Watch's source continues: The sensor will be similar in design to the D3 sensor and the camera itself will be able to use existing FX (full frame) lenses via an adapter. This will give a crop factor of 0.5x -- pop on a 50mm lens and it will act like a 25mm lens. It will also shoot rectangular pictures by cropping the image from the sensor, which means that you can choose either landscape or portrait orientation without actually moving the camera. Finally, the camera wil be cheap. Not D60 cheap, but a lot less than the current $40,000 offering from Hasselblad.
Now, allow me a little speculation if you will, in the style of the Scooby Doo gang piecing the evidence together. The official Nikon ad appeared in Rangefinder magazine. The announcement will be made at a conference for wedding photographers, a group who shoot a lot in dark places (churches and wedding receptions) and like to print very large pictures. Could we be looking at a giant rangefinder along the lines of the old Mamiya 7? A rangefinder with stratospheric ISO settings? It would certainly be a lot easier to handle than a big medium format DSLR.
We'll see. If this comes true (and we certainly hope it will), then it will be one more victory for the new, revitalized Nikon. Come on, Canon -- let's see what you've got.
-------------------
Ray Nalley
Well-known
I'm trying to understand how this got to be a rangefinder? Rangefinder magazine is not actually a rangefinder camera magazine, it's a magazine for professional photographers. I'm not aware of a burgeoning market among wedding and portrait photographers for a medium format digital rangefinder system. It's more logically, if it is more than just rumor, a digital slr medium format system to compete with Hasselblad.
JonR
Well-known
Agree, and I think that is what the blog article actually suggests - a digital slr medium format system to compete with Hasselblad (on price, the possibility to use non-DX Nikkor lenses etc). It makes sense and if so this is the camera that the various odd Nikon digital RF rumours we have all heard have been about I guess.
/Jon
/Jon
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Jailhouse Rock ??? Hmmmmm, and a left handed Fender Stratocaster too, just like Jimi! Nice
It is a left handed Telecaster not a Stratocaster that is shown being played by Jack Ruby
slm
Formerly nextreme
Well, the title of the Gizmodo post is "Nikon 41-Megapixel MX Format Sensor for Digital Rangefinder?"
The article then goes on to say "Finally, Nikon Watch has a tip (albeit unsubstantiated) that the MX format sensor is 48x48mm and in fact 48MP, and will go inside of a digital rangefinder that's <<not to [sic] dissimilar to the older film Mamiya 6 camera philosophy>>."
So, we're having fun debating the pros/cons, pluses/minuses, possibilities/impossibilities with the assumption that it's a rangefinder. But you're right, it could be an slr. It could even be made out of that new alloy, Vaportanium, which only exists on the internet.
parsec1
parsec1
Good to know that the picture that led me into press photography ,George Stephensons picture or HM Queen wiping a tear from her eyes as she passed the junior school at Aberfan is 'irrelevant'.
Not to mention Larry Burrows pics from Vietnam.
Or the thousands of images seen by millions of newspaper readers every day.
Interesting to see ad agencies use pseudo photojornalist style pics to flog thier wares. Weddings ? well 'papparazi style' wedding photograhy has become very fashionable. I have been asked often enough.
Quality ? Ok I don't work in the controlled enviroment of a studio or on location with 3 assistants a stylist an 'art director' et all' Somehow I think they might get in the way in a riot in Newry NI or a prison in a third world country.
Manufacturors cater for the lowest common denominator at the highest profit margin because they brainwash us into believing thats what we need. Do we really need symbols for mountains or flowers or heads on our cameras.
I was using a couple of Contax G2s two years ago one with a 21mm and viewfinder when along came this chap with his DSLR and a giant zoom poking out of is midrift and said and I quote "cor thats a couple of oldies you've got there".
Such is the power of advertisers to control the publics peception of what they should have rather than what they need
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Trius
Waiting on Maitani
J J: I grant that you have keen insight into your own "lack of knowledge" with regards to the subject of features and marketability of a new product or product niche.
But your insight into my lack of knowledge is astonishing!
But your insight into my lack of knowledge is astonishing!
FrankS
Registered User
With regard to the power and ability of marketing to create/invent a need for a product where none existed before: ever heard of "pet rocks"?
Highway 61
Revisited
Yup, Jack Ruby's Nightclub Big Band, featuring David Ferrie and Clay Shaw.It is a left handed Telecaster not a Stratocaster that is shown being played by Jack Ruby
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
A classic! Almost as good as the "Cabbage Patch Kids". Ugly dolls that every child seemed to want one Christmas back in the 1980's. I remember standing in line outside a Toys R Us to get one for my Girlfriend's daughter...
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Yup, Jack Ruby's Nightclub Big Band, featuring David Ferrie and Clay Shaw.
To borrow a phrase from the lyrics of the Bugs Bunny Road Runner Hour show theme song, that Big Band use to have "a gay old time".
Highway 61
Revisited
Their purpose was probably to go and rock a victory dance at the Arlington Cemetery Theatre but they finally had their plans revised...To borrow a phrase from the lyrics of the Bugs Bunny Road Runner Hour show theme song, that Big Band use to have "a gay old time".