Godfrey
somewhat colored
Since I haven't seen a Pixii yet, I'm not in any position to judge the viewfinder magnification. .67x to .72x is fine by me, however. And I have a very nice MS Optics Aporia 24mm f/2 lens that is extremely tiny and works well on APS-C ... it would be interesting to see how accurate its RF cam calibration is (I've only used it on TTL viewing cameras so far).
G
olakiril
Well-known
I agree. It would be great though if Pixii v3 could have different viewfinders like the Bessas. The 1x viewfinder is the thing I miss the most from the R-D1. That would help differentiate it from the Leicas a bit more.
They will be lucky to have one successful model really. Different viewfinders would be expensive.
ranger9
Well-known
Asked and answered: "Q: Can the Pixii's short-base, 0.67x range/viewfinder focus accurately at wide apertures and close distances?" "A: I would say yes, as long as nothing moves too much..."
...Which is really just a pseudo-controversial intro for this cute little picture (well, I think it's cute) from yesterday's costume fittings at work. Nerdy specs: camera, Pixii A1571; lens, 50mm f/1.5 Cosina Voigtlander Nokton (the original screw-mount one with a Rayqual adapter); distance, approx. 1 meter, I think; exposure, 1/90 sec. @ f/2.
Gratuitous conventional-wisdom-baiting: It's undoubtedly true that a Moses-format camera would provide less depth-of-field with the same lens at the same marked aperture. But in this particular case I don't think less depth-of-field would necessarily be an advantage, do you? In fact, now that I look at it, I wish I had a bit more DOF to pick up a little more of the detailing in Jessica's dress...
...Which is really just a pseudo-controversial intro for this cute little picture (well, I think it's cute) from yesterday's costume fittings at work. Nerdy specs: camera, Pixii A1571; lens, 50mm f/1.5 Cosina Voigtlander Nokton (the original screw-mount one with a Rayqual adapter); distance, approx. 1 meter, I think; exposure, 1/90 sec. @ f/2.
Gratuitous conventional-wisdom-baiting: It's undoubtedly true that a Moses-format camera would provide less depth-of-field with the same lens at the same marked aperture. But in this particular case I don't think less depth-of-field would necessarily be an advantage, do you? In fact, now that I look at it, I wish I had a bit more DOF to pick up a little more of the detailing in Jessica's dress...
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
This looks like a very promising product. NP-FW50 was an excellent choice of battery. This will be a great way to score Sony users.
Questions for Pixii:
- Why no framelines for a ~35mm equivalent lens (like a 25 CV or ZM)? If the widest frame line is 28mm, that's like 42mm. Or am I reading that spec wrong and it's 28, 35, 40mm equivalents?
- What's going on with the lack of flash sync?
Questions for Ranger9:
- How wide is the "throat" of the camera - can it take collapsible or protruding wides?
- How does it do with symmetrical wides?
I guess longer term, the questions this triggers are:
- How long is it going to be before an iOS update bricks the phone app? Those of us with DxO Ones live in dread of things like that (as well as eliminating lighting ports...)
- How complicated is it to change the internal battery?
- Wifi N is a little on the old side. I already have routers that won't talk to B and G already. Not saying it needs to be AX, but AC would be a little more current
Dante
Questions for Pixii:
- Why no framelines for a ~35mm equivalent lens (like a 25 CV or ZM)? If the widest frame line is 28mm, that's like 42mm. Or am I reading that spec wrong and it's 28, 35, 40mm equivalents?
- What's going on with the lack of flash sync?
Questions for Ranger9:
- How wide is the "throat" of the camera - can it take collapsible or protruding wides?
- How does it do with symmetrical wides?
I guess longer term, the questions this triggers are:
- How long is it going to be before an iOS update bricks the phone app? Those of us with DxO Ones live in dread of things like that (as well as eliminating lighting ports...)
- How complicated is it to change the internal battery?
- Wifi N is a little on the old side. I already have routers that won't talk to B and G already. Not saying it needs to be AX, but AC would be a little more current
Dante
ranger9
Well-known
Dante Stella... wow, there's a name out of the past for me!
You can email Pixii via their website and they probably will email you back -- and your correspondent is as likely to be designer and CEO David Barth as anybody -- but I will take a crack at some of these questions too:
No "equivalency" shenanigans here. If you select the "28mm" setting (which has to be done via menu or phone app, btw -- no auto-changing framelines as on Leica M) the camera brings up a set of framelines that display what a lens with an actual focal length of 28mm will show on the Pixii. Same with 35, 40 and 50. If you remember how the Epson R-D1 finder worked, it's exactly the same: set a focal length and the camera shows framelines indicating what the lens will cover on that camera.
With a 28mm focal length on the Pixii's Super 35/APS-C sensor, the lens will cover an angle of 48 degrees along the long side of the frame. That's the same angular coverage as a 20mm lens on a Micro 4/3 camera, a 40mm lens on a Moses-format camera, or a 50mm lens on a 44x33mm-sensor medium format camera.
Why didn't they go any wider? I'm guessing here, but the Pixii's finder magnification is already a usable-but-low-ish 0.67x. If they had wanted to squeeze in another frameline outside of 28mm, they'd either have had to drop the finder magnification even further (bad for RF accuracy) or make the whole range/viewfinder assembly larger (undesirable from a convenience and cost perspective.) At least on the Pixii you can actually see the 28mm frameline, which for me was always a bit of a challenge on the R-D 1!
There is no mechanical shutter -- zip, zero -- so there is nothing to which to sync a flash. I know, Nikon can do flash sync on its shutterless Z9 camera, but that camera uses a brand-new and very expensive stacked sensor, and whatever Sigma calls their shutterless camera can do flash sync, but only at very low shutter speeds (1/15?)
Actually, the Pixii probably could do flash sync within certain limitations. I was curious about this before I bought the Pixii, so I experimented using my Fujifilm X-T 4 in electronic-shutter mode (since it has the same sensor size and, so I'm told, similar readout speed.) Fujifilm completely disables flash sync in ES mode, but by using a variety of workarounds and a digital delay timer, I was able to get it to sync fairly reliably at 1/125!
If you want the authoritative word, here's what it says on this subject in an email I got from David Barth:
"Flash: there is no flash function. It may be proposed as a future upgrade, starting problably with a software upgrade for studio photographer using wireless solutions compatible with our Bluetooth subsystems. There is little priority for a hot shoe / TTL feature considering the rangefinder nature of the camera."
I haven't tried anything that protrudes more than the Sonnar-formula 7Artisans 35mm f/2, but had no problems. Because there's no mechanical shutter, there's no need for curtain-roller housings etc.; basically there's nothing inside the throat except the sensor itself.
But again, here's the official word from David Barth in an email:
"Our design is in fact more compatible because we handle collapsible Elmars and Summicrons, while Leica says to not do it because they left less margin and you risk scratching the shutter blades. We specifically designed the camera housing to accommodate these old ladies. And the Hologon as well."
I don't know. The widest rangefinder lens I own is a 28mm.
Actually -- and this is something a lot of the online coverage gets wrong -- it's kind of a moot point, because you don't actually need the phone app at all to use the camera. It's just a convenience if you want to review shots after taking, or change camera settings remotely rather than via the on-camera menu.
Currently there are some security-related quirks with iOS 15.2 that forced Pixii to disable one app function (the ability to connect to the camera's self-created wireless access point) but Pixii says they expect to return that function as soon as they sort out Apple's issue.
Also, there's an Android version of the app -- still listed as beta, but people seem to be using it successfully -- so you're not locked into iOS.
There isn't one! That IS one of the things I find a bit off-putting about the Pixii: When powered off, it retains some of your menu settings (presumably in NVRAM) but does NOT maintain date and time settings. If you do a quick handshake with the app at startup time, it will pick up the date and time from your phone and remember it until powered off again. But if you don't, your photos' EXIF data will show a creation date of 1/1/00 at 12:00:00 am plus however long the camera has been powered on. It's not hard to fix this using Lightroom's bulk-change feature, but it's a bit janky. Still, I'd rather put up with that than with an internal battery that eventually would die and might leak.
Yeah, but remember that with the Pixii, most of what constitutes the "camera" is completely software-defined. There's no reason they couldn't update it to any protocol that's supported by the ARM Cortex main processor.
Hope this helps, or at least is of interest! I'm trying NOT to be too much of a Pixii fanboy on this thread -- I'll readily admit, for example, that someone who has a big collection of M-mount lenses (really fat ones won't work on the Pixii) or uses flash even occasionally would be better off with a Leica M. But especially now that I've been using it almost every day, I've gotten to the point that I don't even notice most of the quirks that seemed super-weird to me at first. I just pick it up and shoot with it and it stays out of my way, and that's how I like to work.
You can email Pixii via their website and they probably will email you back -- and your correspondent is as likely to be designer and CEO David Barth as anybody -- but I will take a crack at some of these questions too:
No "equivalency" shenanigans here. If you select the "28mm" setting (which has to be done via menu or phone app, btw -- no auto-changing framelines as on Leica M) the camera brings up a set of framelines that display what a lens with an actual focal length of 28mm will show on the Pixii. Same with 35, 40 and 50. If you remember how the Epson R-D1 finder worked, it's exactly the same: set a focal length and the camera shows framelines indicating what the lens will cover on that camera.
With a 28mm focal length on the Pixii's Super 35/APS-C sensor, the lens will cover an angle of 48 degrees along the long side of the frame. That's the same angular coverage as a 20mm lens on a Micro 4/3 camera, a 40mm lens on a Moses-format camera, or a 50mm lens on a 44x33mm-sensor medium format camera.
Why didn't they go any wider? I'm guessing here, but the Pixii's finder magnification is already a usable-but-low-ish 0.67x. If they had wanted to squeeze in another frameline outside of 28mm, they'd either have had to drop the finder magnification even further (bad for RF accuracy) or make the whole range/viewfinder assembly larger (undesirable from a convenience and cost perspective.) At least on the Pixii you can actually see the 28mm frameline, which for me was always a bit of a challenge on the R-D 1!
There is no mechanical shutter -- zip, zero -- so there is nothing to which to sync a flash. I know, Nikon can do flash sync on its shutterless Z9 camera, but that camera uses a brand-new and very expensive stacked sensor, and whatever Sigma calls their shutterless camera can do flash sync, but only at very low shutter speeds (1/15?)
Actually, the Pixii probably could do flash sync within certain limitations. I was curious about this before I bought the Pixii, so I experimented using my Fujifilm X-T 4 in electronic-shutter mode (since it has the same sensor size and, so I'm told, similar readout speed.) Fujifilm completely disables flash sync in ES mode, but by using a variety of workarounds and a digital delay timer, I was able to get it to sync fairly reliably at 1/125!
If you want the authoritative word, here's what it says on this subject in an email I got from David Barth:
"Flash: there is no flash function. It may be proposed as a future upgrade, starting problably with a software upgrade for studio photographer using wireless solutions compatible with our Bluetooth subsystems. There is little priority for a hot shoe / TTL feature considering the rangefinder nature of the camera."
I haven't tried anything that protrudes more than the Sonnar-formula 7Artisans 35mm f/2, but had no problems. Because there's no mechanical shutter, there's no need for curtain-roller housings etc.; basically there's nothing inside the throat except the sensor itself.
But again, here's the official word from David Barth in an email:
"Our design is in fact more compatible because we handle collapsible Elmars and Summicrons, while Leica says to not do it because they left less margin and you risk scratching the shutter blades. We specifically designed the camera housing to accommodate these old ladies. And the Hologon as well."
I don't know. The widest rangefinder lens I own is a 28mm.
Actually -- and this is something a lot of the online coverage gets wrong -- it's kind of a moot point, because you don't actually need the phone app at all to use the camera. It's just a convenience if you want to review shots after taking, or change camera settings remotely rather than via the on-camera menu.
Currently there are some security-related quirks with iOS 15.2 that forced Pixii to disable one app function (the ability to connect to the camera's self-created wireless access point) but Pixii says they expect to return that function as soon as they sort out Apple's issue.
Also, there's an Android version of the app -- still listed as beta, but people seem to be using it successfully -- so you're not locked into iOS.
There isn't one! That IS one of the things I find a bit off-putting about the Pixii: When powered off, it retains some of your menu settings (presumably in NVRAM) but does NOT maintain date and time settings. If you do a quick handshake with the app at startup time, it will pick up the date and time from your phone and remember it until powered off again. But if you don't, your photos' EXIF data will show a creation date of 1/1/00 at 12:00:00 am plus however long the camera has been powered on. It's not hard to fix this using Lightroom's bulk-change feature, but it's a bit janky. Still, I'd rather put up with that than with an internal battery that eventually would die and might leak.
Yeah, but remember that with the Pixii, most of what constitutes the "camera" is completely software-defined. There's no reason they couldn't update it to any protocol that's supported by the ARM Cortex main processor.
Hope this helps, or at least is of interest! I'm trying NOT to be too much of a Pixii fanboy on this thread -- I'll readily admit, for example, that someone who has a big collection of M-mount lenses (really fat ones won't work on the Pixii) or uses flash even occasionally would be better off with a Leica M. But especially now that I've been using it almost every day, I've gotten to the point that I don't even notice most of the quirks that seemed super-weird to me at first. I just pick it up and shoot with it and it stays out of my way, and that's how I like to work.
ranger9
Well-known
Tutu Tuesday: Yesterday was a costume fitting day at the office... I literally came out of the stairwell into the middle of this scene, and took just enough time to run to my desk, put my stuff down, and pull out the Pixii before coming back out to snap some pics for our social-media channel. Mostly I've been using the (Sonnar formula) 7Artisans 35mm f/2 as my normal lens on this camera, but this week I have been carrying the (Gauss formula) 35mm f/2 Canon because I wanted to try something a little less "glowy" (sorry, Sonnar Brian, I have temporarily departed from the True Faith!)
The technical note of possible interest here was that I was underexposing my foreground subject by anywhere from 1.5 to 3 stops, to keep the strong light from the windows behind the subject area from blowing out. That meant I had to boost the shadow values in Lightroom; I think they pulled up quite nicely, although at the cost of more noise than I'd normally get with the Pixii at ISO 1600. Also, I haven't shot with the Canon 35/2 much in strong backlight and wondered how much it would flare out, but it doesn't strike me as being an issue here.
This is a beautiful custom-made, fully-hand-sewn tutu, and my subject, Whitney, was thrilled to be wearing it. Enjoy...
Whitney I - Whitney II - Whitney III - Whitney IV
The technical note of possible interest here was that I was underexposing my foreground subject by anywhere from 1.5 to 3 stops, to keep the strong light from the windows behind the subject area from blowing out. That meant I had to boost the shadow values in Lightroom; I think they pulled up quite nicely, although at the cost of more noise than I'd normally get with the Pixii at ISO 1600. Also, I haven't shot with the Canon 35/2 much in strong backlight and wondered how much it would flare out, but it doesn't strike me as being an issue here.
This is a beautiful custom-made, fully-hand-sewn tutu, and my subject, Whitney, was thrilled to be wearing it. Enjoy...
Whitney I - Whitney II - Whitney III - Whitney IV
Out to Lunch
Ventor
"...but remember that with the Pixii, most of what constitutes the "camera" is completely software-defined." Except for the rangefinder mechanism, of course. If it goes out of alignment, do you have to send the camera to France?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Based on what was said earlier in this thread, the Pixii rangefinder is quite easy to collimate and calibrate yourself.
G
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Are you mixing up the Epson and Pixii threads?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
No ... Are you? I haven't been on any Epson thread.
Regards the rangefinder adjustment, see post #133 in this thread: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/4751560?p=4766121#post4766121
G
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Looks like it! This said I'll hang on to my Epsons, which need their rangefinders adjusted. The first one, the R-D1 could be done in, more or less the same way as the Pixii but the R-D1s and x are much more difficult to adjust. Cheers, OtL
ranger9
Well-known
Definitely hang onto your Epsons! “R-D 1 seller's remorse” is a real thing! Still…
I've got an R-D 1 (and in fact contributed some photos to the “how to adjust the rangefinder” article on the R-D 1 archive) but no longer recommend doing this yourself, even on the original model. What I found was that after adjusting through the accessory shoe, it wouldn't stay adjusted for long; I suspect there's some sealer on the threads that eventually drags the screws back to their original positions. Eventually I gave up and sent my R-D 1 to Steve's Camera Service of Culver City, CA; they adjusted it and it has stayed adjusted ever since.
One difference vs. the Pixii: the R-D 1's adjustment area is very crowded with other stuff that could be disturbed during an attempt; on the Pixii, the adjustment is deeply recessed but basically by itself. Also, the Pixii uses a locking screw instead of sealer. And of course Epson doesn't recommend trying to adjust your R-D 1 (if you read that recent post about the R-D 1 17th anniversary gathering, there's a whole section about them saying don't do that) whereas with Pixii it's a factory-supported procedure.
ranger9
Well-known
DXOMark has spoken...
I don't consider DXOMark's numbers as decisive, since their methodology relies on undocumented "secret sauce" and it's seldom clear how their results relate to the things I care about in photography.
Still, just because a lot of people consult and debate their ratings, it's interesting to note that they have just released a "sensor rating" for the Pixii A1571, and it did rather well:
DXO compared the Pixii to two Moses-format* cameras from Leica: the M10 and the Q2. The Pixii outperforms the Leica M10's sensor in their "portrait/color depth" measurement (whatever that means), and outperforms both the M10 and the Q2 in "landscape/dynamic range" performance. Its biggest downfall is in "sports/low light ISO" measurement, where the larger sensor pixels of the Leicas give them a slight advantage amounting to 0.14EV for the M10 and 0.36EV for the Q2.
The whole writeup is here. Again, I don't normally base any decisions on DXOMark, but their results do provide some evidence that buying a low-volume, startup-manufacturer camera doesn't necessarily doom you to bottom-of-the-barrel sensor performance.
*Alfred Moses was the first person to market a still camera -- the made-in-USA Simplex of 1914 -- that used the 36x24mm frame size on 35mm film, so I like to give him credit rather than relying on vague concepts such as "fullness."
I don't consider DXOMark's numbers as decisive, since their methodology relies on undocumented "secret sauce" and it's seldom clear how their results relate to the things I care about in photography.
Still, just because a lot of people consult and debate their ratings, it's interesting to note that they have just released a "sensor rating" for the Pixii A1571, and it did rather well:
DXO compared the Pixii to two Moses-format* cameras from Leica: the M10 and the Q2. The Pixii outperforms the Leica M10's sensor in their "portrait/color depth" measurement (whatever that means), and outperforms both the M10 and the Q2 in "landscape/dynamic range" performance. Its biggest downfall is in "sports/low light ISO" measurement, where the larger sensor pixels of the Leicas give them a slight advantage amounting to 0.14EV for the M10 and 0.36EV for the Q2.
The whole writeup is here. Again, I don't normally base any decisions on DXOMark, but their results do provide some evidence that buying a low-volume, startup-manufacturer camera doesn't necessarily doom you to bottom-of-the-barrel sensor performance.
*Alfred Moses was the first person to market a still camera -- the made-in-USA Simplex of 1914 -- that used the 36x24mm frame size on 35mm film, so I like to give him credit rather than relying on vague concepts such as "fullness."
I would say it did really well, but as a Fuji user I already knew that modern APSC sensors are very good.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I completely ignore DXOMark. Anyone who publishes numbers without documenting how a camera comes to achieve them, precisely, isn't worth my time.
I like the Pixii. I'm just waiting to see if there's any "discretionary budget" left after I finish doing what I want/need to do on my car restoration project. What I just paid for the interior restoration would have bought me both an M11 and maybe a Summicron-M 50 APO ... But on a fun value assessment, it's worth it to me.
:angel:
G
ranger9
Well-known
I agree. If I had the option either way, I'd rather have a fun car that I could drive to cool places and then once I got there take pictures with a cheap camera or even a phone.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
All a matter of priorities. I really would like a Pixii. Over the next month or two, I'll see what my bank account has to say about it.
The good news is that the Voigtländer Ultron 21mm f/1.8 lens that I've been thinking about is just as useful for the Pixii as it will be for the CL.
G
I really would like a Pixii. Over the next month or two, I'll see what my bank account has to say about it. The good news is that the Voigtländer Ultron 21mm f/1.8 lens that I've been thinking about is just as useful for the Pixii as it will be for the CL.
G
ranger9
Well-known
The good news is that the Voigtländer Ultron 21mm f/1.8 lens that I've been thinking about is just as useful for the Pixii as it will be for the CL.
That's an interesting-looking lens, all right, but the Voigltander.de specs page says the lens hood isn't removable and the maximum diameter is 69mm; looks as if it might be potential trouble according to my admittedly dubious Pixii-friendliness chart, which I concede may not be 100% accurate because my measurements were based on kindergarten-level paper craft! So if you take the plunge, you can let us know!
(Wouldn't it be great if the Head Bartender got hold of a Pixii long enough to annotate his comprehensive Voigtlander lens charts to include a Pixii-friendliness rating for each lens? I'm not volunteering mine since I'm using it almost every day now, but maybe HB and Pixiifather David Barth could cook up something...)