Godfrey
somewhat colored
LOL! I'll let you know how it compares to my Leica M4-2 (35-50-90-135 mm frame lines in a 0.72x magnification finder) when my Pixii arrives. If UPS ever lets it leave Kentucky, that is...
G
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Looking forward to your review!
ranger9
Well-known
I wouldn't call it eye relief, since both of them work best if you keep your eye close to the eyepiece. It's more a matter of margin around the viewfinder edges. The Pixii's lower magnification makes room for more margin. With the Pixii you can actually SEE all the 28mm frameline, even if you wear glasses. With the Epson, the best you can do is keep both eyes open and kind of pretend you know where the frameline is, based on what you can see of it.
Yes, I own both an R-D1 (purchased new in 2004, still used occasionally) and a Pixii A1571 (purchased new last year, currently used a lot.)
aizan
Veteran
LOL! I'll let you know how it compares to my Leica M4-2 (35-50-90-135 mm frame lines in a 0.72x magnification finder) when my Pixii arrives. If UPS ever lets it leave Kentucky, that is...
G
Thanks, Godfrey!
I would have thought the Pixii could fit 35mm-e (24mm) framelines easily, and throw in 28mm-e (21mm) framelines at the periphery. =\
Maybe the eyepiece is smaller?
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Hey, that's what I needed to know. For the don't-Leica I take off my glasses to see through the viewfinder. Knowing those rogues in France have fixed this in their camera is nice to learn. Come on, Leica, how hard would that have been to do?
And yes, Godfrey, I hope that Monday is a "sick day" for you. LOL
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I hope it isn't. I'm retired ... Sick days mean I'm in bed now.
Had a couple of those last weekend, don't want to repeat that.I can never see the 28mm frame lines in a .72x M4-P or later without moving my face all over the place behind the viewfinder because if I take my glasses off, I can't see the RF patch clearly enough to focus. That's why I chose the M4-2 ... only goes out to 35mm frame lines without the 75mm frame line clutter, and I fit a 28mm accessory finder when desired.
By and large, with any optical tunnel camera, I just learn what the lens sees and use whatever I can see through the viewfinder to target and approximate my framing. Half the time with any wide to normal lens, I don't even bother looking through the viewfinder other than to set the focus. When I need exact, accurate framing, I pick an SLR with 100% finder coverage or an EVF camera.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
According to the documentation on the website, the viewfinder's optical field of view is equivalent to a 24mm lens on the format (approximately a 35mm lens on FF field of view). That doesn't really allow much space for 24mm frame lines, there's little room outside of the 28mm frame lines. Just use the full optical viewfinder and guess at parallax... I believe that David Barth has intimated they're adding a 24mm setting so that it can put the right focal length into the EXIF metadata, but i suspect it will just shut off the frame lines display entirely.
This is always one of the tradeoffs with an optical tunnel coupled rangefinder/viewfinder.
G
M.B
Member
I’ve been happy shooting 21mm and using the entire frame. I get a little more which can be handy, if not I crop.
aizan
Veteran
Shopping around for a 24/25mm lens (35mm-e) is ROUGH.
Leica 24mm f/3.8 Elmar
Leica 24mm f/2.8 Elmarit
Leica 24mm f/1.4 Summilux
Voigtländer 25mm f/4 Color-Skopar
Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 Distagon
MS Optics 24mm f/2 Aporia
MS Optics 24mm f/4 Perar
Iberit 24mm f/2.4
Rockstar 24mm f/6.3
Not a single 35mm Summicron equivalent that has the same speed, size, and handling.
The less-than-ideal lens options in the critical 28mm-e (18-21mm) and 35mm-e (24-25mm) range must have been a big discussion point in Pixii's design room. Technical and cost issues with sensors were the main constraint when Epson made the R-D1. Now it's still the lenses holding them back.
Leica 24mm f/3.8 Elmar
Leica 24mm f/2.8 Elmarit
Leica 24mm f/1.4 Summilux
Voigtländer 25mm f/4 Color-Skopar
Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 Distagon
MS Optics 24mm f/2 Aporia
MS Optics 24mm f/4 Perar
Iberit 24mm f/2.4
Rockstar 24mm f/6.3
Not a single 35mm Summicron equivalent that has the same speed, size, and handling.
The less-than-ideal lens options in the critical 28mm-e (18-21mm) and 35mm-e (24-25mm) range must have been a big discussion point in Pixii's design room. Technical and cost issues with sensors were the main constraint when Epson made the R-D1. Now it's still the lenses holding them back.
M.B
Member
35 eq is probably my least favorite focal length, but it’s good to know there where so many options if I would change my mind. Great list
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
This is your problem, not mine. How much whining was there about the Leica M8/8.2 lens selection? My life is not hostage to WA lenses, kinda frees me up a bit. Nor are my photographic skills so stratospheric and focal length dependent. I am just a happy hack out there clicking away.
My meager inventory is 28, 35, 40 and 50 as what I will use. NB, frame lines for all. Two of them are f/2.8's. Not fast enough? Really? The ISO on this puppy goes from 160 to 12800 and can be software goosed higher, the shutter speed to 32000. The specs on this camera are pretty good (https://pixii.fr/specifications), the images are pretty good, and it looks good.
It all works for me. I am sorry it does not for you. We can't all love the same woman.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
itl be interesting to see if that rangefinder is accurate on longer lenses..and what happens to that accuracy when you change lenses..or distances..
I think wide angles will be best here..real..freekin wide..lol..
If this body is a success..I would imagine P having a branded lens or 2 made for them eventually.. from someone..
Problem is..P is kinda like a Apple product..not much you can do to fix problems..like if the memory goes kerblitz..
Send it back to Apple..err..I mean..Pixii..
I'm glad I'm not the Guinea Pig here..
Though I'm thoroughly looking forward to the reviews of far braver people than I am..hahaha..
I think wide angles will be best here..real..freekin wide..lol..
If this body is a success..I would imagine P having a branded lens or 2 made for them eventually.. from someone..
Problem is..P is kinda like a Apple product..not much you can do to fix problems..like if the memory goes kerblitz..
Send it back to Apple..err..I mean..Pixii..
I'm glad I'm not the Guinea Pig here..
Though I'm thoroughly looking forward to the reviews of far braver people than I am..hahaha..
aizan
Veteran
There was a lot of whining about the M8 crop sensor and much rejoicing in the land when the M9 was full frame, ha!
If there are two branches that fall under the label rangefinder photography, 1) street/documentary photography and 2) general photography, the Pixii is designed to excel at general photography. I wasn't shopping for a camera to do that, but I'm gradually rationalizing it because I've been waiting for a Thom Hogan-esque camera.
If there are two branches that fall under the label rangefinder photography, 1) street/documentary photography and 2) general photography, the Pixii is designed to excel at general photography. I wasn't shopping for a camera to do that, but I'm gradually rationalizing it because I've been waiting for a Thom Hogan-esque camera.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I remember there being a lot of crabbing about the 1.3x crop factor with the M8. The reason it wasn't worse was that the M8 had 31mm framelines when you attached a 24mm lens, and 37mm framelines when you attached a 28mm lens. Of course the other reason that the crop factor wasn't a bigger issue is that it took a backseat to the color correction kerfuffle where Leica had to send out two IR/UV cut filters so the blacks weren't magenta and the greens weren't yellow.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
From the Leica M8.2 manual:
"If lenses with nominal focal lengths* 24, 28 (Elmarit
28 mm from serial number 2 411 001), 35, 50, 75 and
90 mm are used, the associated bright-line frame
automatically adjusts to the combinations 24+35 mm,
28+90 mm, 50+75 mm."
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I was not in the market when the M8 came out. There will always be whining as well as exultation with new product releases. It is our nature. But the onslaught against Pixii is as almost serious as a religious war. Go over to LUF. These are contentious, tribal times and it seems that nearly everybody is a victim. My take on the Pixii is simple: if you do not like it you do not have to buy it. If you do like it you can buy it. No obligation either way. Some folks are acting like they just got fined $3000 for illegal parking and that is without them buying the camera, just looking at it. It would be more amusing if it were not so sad.
I am not sure where you picked up that this is for general photography not street photography. Here is Pixii's manifesto as to why: https://pixii.fr/why-pixii
It is an RF camera in the 35mm film category of camera size and image size. So are many others. What is the deciding factor of street vs general?
I am not familiar with Mr. Hogan. I avoid gurus. Until they can all agree they are just opinion sharers and opinions abound. Just look at us. ;o)
Godfrey
somewhat colored
That list shows a lot of choice for M-mount lenses in this focal length range. You only need one, right?
I have the MS Optics Aporia 24/2 and it is an excellent performer.
If you want the same as what you already have with a full-frame M, keep your M or buy a newer one. Why would you consider a different camera if you insist upon what you already have, and then complain that the different camera is not the same?
I don't understand this. I guess people just like to find fault and complain about stuff.
I like to make photographs. I'm going to fit my Aporia 24 to my Leica CL and go for a walk, see what I can see.
G
I have the MS Optics Aporia 24/2 and it is an excellent performer.
If you want the same as what you already have with a full-frame M, keep your M or buy a newer one. Why would you consider a different camera if you insist upon what you already have, and then complain that the different camera is not the same?
I don't understand this. I guess people just like to find fault and complain about stuff.
I like to make photographs. I'm going to fit my Aporia 24 to my Leica CL and go for a walk, see what I can see.
G
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Except that they weren't really 24+35 mm framelines. They were the framelines for what 24mm and 35mm lenses look like when attached to a camera with a 1.3x crop sensor; i.e., they were (24x1.3)=31.2mm + (35x1.3)=45mm framelines. And the same for the other combinations. That's why they call them "associated" bright line frames.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Just another example of the world leading technology in Wetzlar. And customer support. I would not be surprised if hostages were taken if Pixii had problems like this. ;o) But they do not. I'll say that again, but they do not.
This is the difference between a thoughtful, knowledgeable, responsible company and a bunch of old fuddy-duddies resting on their laurels. I know the Leica fanboys are legion and that insubordination in the ranks is not tolerated but lets look at what is going on. Pixii, a startup, has put together a camera which works and works well. We have the proof. The gigantic and wealthy Leitz stumbled through three models (M8, M8.2, M9) before they finally got it right. Think of the capital and tech assets at their access and they still screwed the pooch, bigtime. They looked like rank amateurs. I'll avoid reminding the board about how Leica handled their screw-ups.
It is not like Leica invented the wheel with the M8. I have an old Sony DSC S70 from 2000 which works just fine. Great photos. No electronic or sensor problems. Leica, did you hear that? Come to think of it, despite the tiny Sony sensor size, ~3MB IIRC, the images are as good as the Leica's.
But I do not want to wander again into the Leica wars. This is about something new with promise.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
This becomes thoroughly silly. There’s rather a lot between a 5.5x7mm sensor camera with a dedicated, non-interchangeable lens that produces only 3.2Mpixel JPEG files and an M8. At the time of the S70, something like the M8 was generally considered to be practically impossible to make at all.
The creation of the M8 required a huge amount of research, engineering, and perseverance. There was nothing off the shelf that would work and be sellable at a profit.
The Pixii is a remarkable first product for a startup company, but its creation rests upon an intense and furiously raised mountain of available technology, vastly lower cost available components, and the engineering knowledge of a generation of thousands of engineers. To say that Leica screwed up with the M8 is nothing but sour grapes and prejudice speaking.
As always, if you think you could do better, go do and prove it.
G
The creation of the M8 required a huge amount of research, engineering, and perseverance. There was nothing off the shelf that would work and be sellable at a profit.
The Pixii is a remarkable first product for a startup company, but its creation rests upon an intense and furiously raised mountain of available technology, vastly lower cost available components, and the engineering knowledge of a generation of thousands of engineers. To say that Leica screwed up with the M8 is nothing but sour grapes and prejudice speaking.
As always, if you think you could do better, go do and prove it.
G