New RD-1x

mani said:
1. the manufacturer's recommended price is often considerably higher than street price
2. are you sure that the price on that page refers to body-only? Some japanese speakers have said that there's a kit price (with lens and grip) and another lower price for body-only
3. prices are adjusted for local markets - camera prices are traditionally higher in Japan than when the same cameras are exported
4. the Japanese market has very high taxes on electronic goods
5. exchange rates vary

So that's why there's doubt about the price. Happy?
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Hi Mani! Nice to hear from you again! I really appreciated your comments in an earlier thread so I will try to answer your questions.

1. This camera is going on sale in five weeks (April 9 to be exact), yet it is not listed in any other store. The Epson store website lists a retail price (299,800 JPY) and a suggested manufacturer's price which is just called "open" on the sale page. There is a note that says since the suggested manufacturer's retail price is open, buyers should consult their favorite store. If other stores like Map and Yodobashi do end up carrying the item, I believe they will at best give a 10% discount plus their own in-house point system benefits. If Matsuyastore carries the new R-D1xG, I would guess it will sell for 10% less than what Epson lists (depending on exchange rate), since that is how they have been selling new models of the R-D1 (see below).

2. The price is body only including grip, hence, as they explain on the website, the new model number: R-D1xG (R-D1 x Grip Kit) = R-D1 + Grip. I don't know which page other reported Japanese-speakers were looking at, but all of the Epson pages, including both the product info page and the store sale page, state very clearly that the lens and memory card are not included. The grip, however, is included. The Epson leather case is available separately.

Signficantly, the Epson store still lists the older R-D1s model, at a price of 249,800 JPY (US$2560), which is just about 10% higher than the price ($2365) at which Matsuiyastore has been selling new ones at since the yen appreciated. There are however no more R-D1 in stock on the Epson site at this time. As I said above, I bet that if Matsuiya does carry the R-D1xG, it will be at around 10% off the Epson price, paralleling the price structure at which they have carried new models of the R-D1. Note that since Matsuiya is selling these for export, which means the 5% consumption tax can be waived, their price is really only about 5% below Epson's own price.

3. This camera is not available in any other markets. It is Japan-only. Generally this means that sales are only accepted in Japan, and service is only accepted from people with Japan addresses.

4. The 299,800 JPY price includes 5% consumption tax. For goods manufactured in Japan, there is no other applicable tax. Perhaps people have been thinking of import taxes, which in this case do not apply.

5. Does anybody see a devaluation of the yen in the near future? If anything, it looks like the dollar is faced with massive pressure due to spiraling debt, with both China and Japan expected to buy incredible quantities of Treasury Bills to finance the US debt. I don't see a depreciation of the yen against the dollar in sight, but I'm no expert here.

I hope my answers to your questions have been helpful.

A few additional tidbits:

* Epson is listing the price for new batteries at 5,200 JPY.

* The camera comes with a software called Epson Photolier. Is this new? I assume it replaces the old Epson Camera Raw. If it is indeed new, that could well be a BIG improvement!

I'd buy one of the new old stock R-D1 from Matsuiya before buying this R-D1xG.

Up until the end of last month you could purchase a new M8 from England with a two year passport warranty covering even accidental damage for the price of US$2700-2900 shipped (depending on daily fluctuation in exchange rate and changes in Robert White's on line price). Hmmm, an M8 for less than an R-D1, and yet there still seems to be more of an interest in the R-D1. There's a marketing lesson in there for sure.
 
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noimmunity said:
5. Does anybody see a devaluation of the yen in the near future? If anything, it looks like the dollar is faced with massive pressure due to spiraling debt, with both China and Japan expected to buy incredible quantities of Treasury Bills to finance the US debt. I don't see a depreciation of the yen against the dollar in sight, but I'm no expert here.
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Well here is a link that will help get you up to date:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZ8wgB_mCeUI&refer=home

Dollar Sole Refuge as Traders Have ‘No Alternatives’

Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar rose to a three-year high against the currencies of major U.S. trading partners as the plunge in the yen and Swiss franc left the world’s reserve currency the only refuge from economic turmoil.
Japan’s crumbling economy combined with an end to the unwinding of the carry trade weakened the yen, last year’s best- performing currency, by 7.2 percent this year, even after a 0.9 percent gain today....
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And in reference to:

Up until the end of last month you could purchase a new M8 from England with a two year passport warranty covering even accidental damage for the price of US$2700-2900 shipped (depending on daily fluctuation in exchange rate and changes in Robert White's on line price). Hmmm, an M8 for less than an R-D1, and yet there still seems to be more of an interest in the R-D1. There's a marketing lesson in there for sure.
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If I can get back to January, I'll sell some stock, buy an M8, wait till now and get a RD-1xG or two as well! And I'll have more money than before my 'trip'!! 😀
 
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noimmunity said:
Hi Mani! Nice to hear from you again! I really appreciated your comments in an earlier thread so I will try to answer your questions... Hmmm, an M8 for less than an R-D1, and yet there still seems to be more of an interest in the R-D1. There's a marketing lesson in there for sure.
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HI - thanks for the complete answer. I had a look again, and I saw (with a little google-translation help) that the lens isn't part of the package.
Anyway, while I agree that the price seems on the high side, I'm still glad that Epson has made this move, for several reasons:

- I still in many ways prefer the files from the Epson than from the M8 (the latest one I bought went straight back for a fix to Solms, incidentally - so even on reliability the RD1s is ahead in my experience) 😉

- I'm hoping it wakes other manufacturers up, and shows them there is a market for DRFs. Imagine if Nikon release an M-mount DRF, or a digital Zeiss Ikon.

- this may mean that Epson are developing a new camera. The decision to re-open the DRF section of their business otherwise doesn't make that much sense. People are talking about getting rid of stockpiled cameras, but I truly don't think there would be so many unsold units from the first iteration, since the camera has steadily held demand since it was discontinued. Incurring the extra costs in development (there's a new image processing chip in there, and possibly new developing software), marketing and support doesn't make sense just to get rid of (at most) a few thousand unsold units.

So my conclusion would be that Epson are gearing-up for something new. Let's hope so, anyway. 🙂
 
mani said:
- this may mean that Epson are developing a new camera. The decision to re-open the DRF section of their business otherwise doesn't make that much sense. People are talking about getting rid of stockpiled cameras, but I truly don't think there would be so many unsold units from the first iteration, since the camera has steadily held demand since it was discontinued. Incurring the extra costs in development (there's a new image processing chip in there, and possibly new developing software), marketing and support doesn't make sense just to get rid of (at most) a few thousand unsold units.

So my conclusion would be that Epson are gearing-up for something new. Let's hope so, anyway. 🙂
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While I find it hard to believe that they are developing a new camera - it is harder to believe they would bother to upgrade the LCD just to get rid of old stock. So there may be more to this camera than meets the eye... Hopefully...
 
mani said:
So my conclusion would be that Epson are gearing-up for something new. Let's hope so, anyway. 🙂
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😀😀😀

LCT said:
As far as i get it there would be two different versions of the new body in Japan: the R-D1xG with grip and the R-D1x w/o grip. According to the link below the latter's price could be 200,000 yen i.e. 2,050 USD. Would make an expensive grip though...
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...23-new-epson-alternative-m8-4.html#post824809
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i don't need no stinkin' grip! haven't dropped my camera yet 😛
 
LCT said:
As far as i get it there would be two different versions of the new body in Japan: the R-D1xG with grip and the R-D1x w/o grip. According to the link below the latter's price could be 200,000 yen i.e. 2,050 USD. Would make an expensive grip though...
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...23-new-epson-alternative-m8-4.html#post824809
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SDai who mentions this dual price structure in that thread doesn't specify the source, just calling it "a japanese site" as though it were some kind of archaic esoteric and finally inaccessible code. Compared to mundane references to Epson Japan's official site that are plainly visible for all to see, this esoteric citation seems like yet another case of viral rumour on the net.

The grip itself, or a grip currently available in Japan for the R-D1, sells for about US$100.
 
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According to this webpage (bottom section) the grip is included as standard i.e. at this stage of the game, Epson is not selling it without the grip.

特製ハンドグリップを標準搭載

img_dist8.jpg
 
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mani said:
HI - thanks for the complete answer. I had a look again, and I saw (with a little google-translation help) that the lens isn't part of the package.
Anyway, while I agree that the price seems on the high side, I'm still glad that Epson has made this move, for several reasons:

- I still in many ways prefer the files from the Epson than from the M8 (the latest one I bought went straight back for a fix to Solms, incidentally - so even on reliability the RD1s is ahead in my experience) 😉

- I'm hoping it wakes other manufacturers up, and shows them there is a market for DRFs. Imagine if Nikon release an M-mount DRF, or a digital Zeiss Ikon.

- this may mean that Epson are developing a new camera. The decision to re-open the DRF section of their business otherwise doesn't make that much sense. People are talking about getting rid of stockpiled cameras, but I truly don't think there would be so many unsold units from the first iteration, since the camera has steadily held demand since it was discontinued. Incurring the extra costs in development (there's a new image processing chip in there, and possibly new developing software), marketing and support doesn't make sense just to get rid of (at most) a few thousand unsold units.

So my conclusion would be that Epson are gearing-up for something new. Let's hope so, anyway. 🙂
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I have to agree, I think this is great news! And it suggests all kinds of fun things to think about...

I don't agree, however, with your preference for the R-D1 files. For myself, so far, I prefer the M8 by far (I had an R-D1). Subjectively, it is also very much of a pleasure to look at, carry, and use to take photos. Luckily, I haven't had any problems with mine.

I consider myself to have gotten a really great deal when I picked up a new silver chrome limited edition (looks like something DAG could easily make) M8 with two year passport warranty for $2800 from Robert White last month.
 
johnsonjj22 said:
This is hilarious. Funny how seriously people take camera equipment.

Epson releases an unannounced, totally out of the blue, "new" digital rangefinder and people get pissed. Hell, from the sounds of it, they would have been better off just not releasing the thing.

Youtube is awesome, I highly recommend these two videos as relevant to the conversation at hand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnwf2RShNV0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jETv3NURwLc
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The first one really made my day!😀
 
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