Engman
Newbie
RED DOT CAMARAS are now taking orders for the new Super-Elmar 18mm f3.8-ASPH and a 18mm Metal Finder. More lenses on the way?
New Super Elmar 18mm f3.8-ASPH
- Thread starter Engman
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Richard Marks
Rexel
If anything this suggests to me a full frame M9 is unlikely
Richard
Richard
Ben Z
Veteran
Richard, have you read somewhere that this 18mm has a smaller image circle than FF? 😱
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No.
Zeiss makes an 18/4.
Leica offers an 18mm that is 1/6 stop faster, but the same speed as the new, slower (i.e. not f/1.4) 24mm. Marketing. And it has Leica written on it.
Why would this preclude a 24x36 sensor?
This is classic internet alarmism. Withing 24 hours this lens will be 'reliably reported' as having a small image circle -- which is nonsense.
Cheers,
R.
LeicaMSeattle
Established
I wonder how it'll stack up against the Zeiss ZM18 and the CV18? In price so far, (2)ZMs or (4)CVs = (1) Leica SE?
sfokevin
Established
It would be nice to see the 6-Bit coding?... I have the Zeiss 18/4 and would like to try it out with the coding... I wonder if the coding was added on the last firmware update (I assume they knew what it would be back then)...
I went the to RedDot site hoping to see a pic... but could find no mention of the lens?...
I went the to RedDot site hoping to see a pic... but could find no mention of the lens?...
sahe69
Well-known
Atom
Molecular.Atom
CV had a prototype 18 a while back, never made it to production.
Engman
Newbie
Go to RED DOT CAMERAS in UK. or http://www.Image-Acquire.com/leica-m-3818-super-elmar-pro-lens/
Richard Marks
Rexel
Hi Ben
No I have not read anything of substance, but there is considerable investment of new lenses at the very wide end (some with eye watering prices). We have coped quite well without this width for film M's for many years and my hunch is that these new optics are to get a bit wider with a 1.3x crop sensor. I really hope that i am wrong. Im saving for an M9 what ever!
Best wishes
Richard
Richard Marks
Rexel
Dear Roger relax, I am not being alarmist, but your sensitive response might be considered so by some!
"Cheers"
Richard
LeicaMSeattle
Established
I meant the CV15, I have the CV12 that is a lot of fun for the money.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
TJV
Well-known
Personally, I reckon it's an exciting lens. Especially if one owns an M8. I'm not an ultra wide kind of guy but if I were to buy another M digital with cropped sensor I'd want to make sure that 1: I can get an at least 21 - 24mm equiv AND 2: the lenses I buy are future proof in case of a later introduced FF camera. The more I shoot film, the less I think FF is such an issue for such a tool. Great, distortion free lenses are what I want most. Seems Leica are covering all of the important bases for me.
SR1
Established
I'm sure many would like a 24Mp full frame M9, however I suspect they would all be very disappointed with the performance of their lenses on such a camera. When Leica developed this lens (and all the recent lenses) they must have had an eye to the future. It would be interesting to know the limits of resolution of the latest lenses as this may indicate the sensor they were designed for and I doubt it was the M8. Casn anyone here do such testing?
So as for buying futureproof lenses, that really depends on how big a sensor you will ultimately be using.
Richard Marks
Rexel
Well I recently used a 1st generation Summicron on my M8 and it was still pretty good. Id say it was already pretty future proof! It would be very nice to know if and how imminent a FF rangefinder is (if at all). I suspect we are not even close but clearly if there is another digital m it will certainly have more resolution and hence the high spec wide angle lenses. I do not see any new development at the tele end incidentally. How about an aspherical 75 1.4 lux or for example! Clearly if we were going full frame this would be desireable. I guess we will just have to buy the lenses that give us the pictures we want here and now and just enjoy what we have. Future proof is not a term that i would use lightly for anything.
Richard
SR1
Established
Richard,
The 10Mp sensor of the M8 is about the limit of resolution a first generation Summicron can manage. I've just sold one and didn't think it that good, however it did need a service. All lenses certainly up to 10 years ago only needed to resolve to the capability of film and digital sensors over 10MP will progressively out resolve the lenses. If they want to maintain an acceptable standard of resolution with older lenses, I personally can't see Lecia giving us anything beyond 12MP with a new camera and I would welcome that.
Apart from bragging rights, why would anyone want a a larger sensor if the output is limited by the lenses they use?
It would be interesting to know what a lens such as the 18mm f3.8 is designed to work with. What sensor did they design it to reolve against. If the M8 then it is not very futureproof if you expect to see 24Mp full frame sensors in future.
Perhaps the most telling of all will be the Noctilux. That must have been designed to work with the next generation of camera and if anyone can test its maximum resolving ability, they will have a better idea than the speculators as to what Leica is planning?
SR
The 10Mp sensor of the M8 is about the limit of resolution a first generation Summicron can manage. I've just sold one and didn't think it that good, however it did need a service. All lenses certainly up to 10 years ago only needed to resolve to the capability of film and digital sensors over 10MP will progressively out resolve the lenses. If they want to maintain an acceptable standard of resolution with older lenses, I personally can't see Lecia giving us anything beyond 12MP with a new camera and I would welcome that.
Apart from bragging rights, why would anyone want a a larger sensor if the output is limited by the lenses they use?
It would be interesting to know what a lens such as the 18mm f3.8 is designed to work with. What sensor did they design it to reolve against. If the M8 then it is not very futureproof if you expect to see 24Mp full frame sensors in future.
Perhaps the most telling of all will be the Noctilux. That must have been designed to work with the next generation of camera and if anyone can test its maximum resolving ability, they will have a better idea than the speculators as to what Leica is planning?
SR
veraikon
xpanner
No, only a viewfinder and a flash
==> http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70002&page=2
Richard Marks
Rexel
Dear SR
Very interesting thoughts. I think ultimately digital sensors have out resolved film, but why do you say this will happen at say 12 MP? Is there a definable cut off point? Surely its more complicated. I know Olympus looked at this with the E1 when using a 5MP sensor and suggested their sensor size to lens set up was 'optimal'.
Personally I do not crave more resolution. I am very happy with the M8. If i were to be gifted full frame it would primarilyto allow me the luxury of using the same set of lenses interchangeably on both my film and digital bodies. This is good from an economic practical and artistic viewpoint. A secondary consideration for me would be a sensor with more dynamic range and (less noise). Ultimately this would for me be a bigger impact than pure resolving power from pixel desnity. It is just that pixel count has become something of a marketing thing to make last years models seem obsolete. For sure any new camera will have more pixels. I am guessing we will still be at 1.3x crop factor if there is an M9.
Not sure if the resolution of the Noctilux would be a useful predictor of future sensor resolution. Maybe this 18mm newie might be better!
Incidentally your first gen Sumicron might have been a bit hazey inside? Im not suggesting it is as good as the current optics, but pretty good for the innings it has had.
Best wishes
Richard
zeitz
Established
SR1, the only thing Leica that is unquestionable is the quality of the lenses in terms of resolution, especially the new Aspheric lenses. So much so that many like the character of the older lenses better.
Leica posts their test results. You can see the Noctilux plots, compare to Summilux plots, and tell that the Nocti is a compromise. Erwin Puts has thorough discussions that go beyond just the charts. The Popular Photography Leica lens tests also shows the lenses to be superb. Leica M and R lens performance is better than either Canon or Nikon resulting in many using R lenses on Canon and Nikon. Only Zeiss is currently matching Leica, although the CV lenses are hard to match in value.
What lenses and 12 mp camera are you using that leads you to make these statements? Are you using a 21/24 mp DSLR with the best available lenses and have been disappointed?
I do want a FF M9 with 24 mp. I will put in my order for the new 18mm this week.
Leica posts their test results. You can see the Noctilux plots, compare to Summilux plots, and tell that the Nocti is a compromise. Erwin Puts has thorough discussions that go beyond just the charts. The Popular Photography Leica lens tests also shows the lenses to be superb. Leica M and R lens performance is better than either Canon or Nikon resulting in many using R lenses on Canon and Nikon. Only Zeiss is currently matching Leica, although the CV lenses are hard to match in value.
What lenses and 12 mp camera are you using that leads you to make these statements? Are you using a 21/24 mp DSLR with the best available lenses and have been disappointed?
I do want a FF M9 with 24 mp. I will put in my order for the new 18mm this week.
