[New test photos released] Leica Summicron 35/2 Eight Element copy made in China

D&A said:
This is a crop of the full image of the park I posted on the previous page. I circled a few of the areas (in gray) where there appears to be sort of a blue/cyan blob around or behind parts of the tree leaves. Just an illustration of what I was referring to in previous posts.

Dave (D&A)

L1001509%20copy-S.jpg
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Are you sure that isn't CCD blooming?

Possibly a way to test for that... shoot the same type of scene on a tripod (for exact same framing) and then shoot it underexposed by a stop or two by shutter speed, not stopping down. If it is a lens issue you haven't changed the lens, if it is CCD blooming it should go away.

Shawn
 
Thanks Shawn. That day when I noticed this artifact, I performed that precise test that day. I often bracket test shots, especially that The M9 metering is sensitive to minute changes in lighting. The camera was tripod mounted and I did a under/normal/over exposure (+/- by e stops) with lens set to wide open. Also did the same with lens set on f4. Same results as shown. What I now just narrowed it down to with a series of new test shots late yesterday and early this morning is when sky is either a confluent blue sky with no clouds or a confident gray sky with no apparent cloud outline, this anomaly does show when examining tree leave with sky in the background showing through the leaves. It appears it the interface of clouds or their outline behind trees that provokes this phenomenon. Otherwise when sky is a smooth confident color, whether deep blue or overcast gray, there so far is no issue with trees as shown. Eventually I'm sure the explanation will be narrowed down and delt with.

Dave (D&A)
 
D&A said:
Thanks Shawn. That day when I noticed this artifact, I performed that precise test that day. I often bracket test shots, especially that The M9 metering is sensitive to minute changes in lighting. The camera was tripod mounted and I did a under/normal/over exposure (+/- by e stops) with lens set to wide open. Also did the same with lens set on f4. Same results as shown. What I now just narrowed it down to with a series of new test shots late yesterday and early this morning is when sky is either a confluent blue sky with no clouds or a confident gray sky with no apparent cloud outline, this anomaly does show when examining tree leave with sky in the background showing through the leaves. It appears it the interface of clouds or their outline behind trees that provokes this phenomenon. Otherwise when sky is a smooth confident color, whether deep blue or overcast gray, there so far is no issue with trees as shown. Eventually I'm sure the explanation will be narrowed down and delt with.

Dave (D&A)
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Tried provoking this on my m240 and I'm not seeing the same thing. I do see some CA and what might be astigmatism wide open (and some sensor reflections) but the effect isn't the same as what you are posting and is typical for most wide open lenses. On my CCD R-D1 I'm getting a pronounced cyan circle around a point light source but that is going to be a sensor artifact, not a lens one. That light source (sun through leaves) was more in the center of the image though, toward the edges it would likely be somewhat less obvious due to the lens being softer on the edges wide open.

50177092212_599ddafbb2_b.jpg


50177091892_a4a0a351ab_b.jpg


Shawn
 
It is then a lens-digital sensor issue where a specific combination of lens/sensor/light may be causing these strange looking outcomes for some people.
 
raid said:
I agree with you all. This lens with its single coating and with its design was meant mainly for B&W film. .
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Raid, I have to disagree with you on that point. The lens was designed in 1958, not the '30s and professional photographers were using both color & BW in the '50s.
 
It's hard at this point to ascribe a definitive circumstance or reason of exactly the cause and whether it's lens, camera or a specific combination that's the culprit. I certainly didn't go looking for it and it does happen even at f8 to the same degree as wide open. You RD-1 test I believe was taken directly in the direction of the sun. In my case and observations, the sun can even be cloud covered and the phenomenon shows. The other thing to note is in past limited testing of the original Leica 8 Element on the same M9, it hasn't occurred.

I won't pursue this any longer but if a notable example in my shooting materializes or if I narrow down the reason, then I'll post the details. Boy I wish I had my original 8 Element cron so I could shoot both side by side.

From now on a post general images of enjoyment and post those so this thread remains fun. Appreciate all those who responded and offered advice and opinion.

Dave (D&A)
 
Sensors of both my M9's are immaculate and both cameras as I mentioned earlier exhibit same phenomenon. Whether say a M240 or M10 would exhibit such a phenominon, I honestly cannot say as I haven't tried the lens on either.

Dave (D&A)
 
When I first received my Hologon 16/8, I tried it on M8 and M9. Then I got a loaner M 240 from Leica. Same smearing observed. Each camera displayed strong purple smearing at the sides of each image taken with this lens. It is much more extreme than what you get with the 35/2 replica.

"sensor issue" in my view is not that your sensor is faulty due to dirt on it. It is a digital side effect of some sort.
 
raid said:
When I first received my Hologon 16/8, I tried it on M8 and M9. Then I got a loaner M 240 from Leica. Same smearing observed. Each camera displayed strong purple smearing at the sides of each image taken with this lens. It is much more extreme than what you get with the 35/2 replica.

"sensor issue" in my view is not that your sensor is faulty due to dirt on it. It is a digital side effect of some sort.
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It would be strange if the people in China did not notice this if it was there; I presume they have tried the lens on any camera it will fit.

Today I've made some b+w pictures with my M2 and the lens. The negatives look awesome. I'll print them the coming days and show them here. (lead containing flint glass and purple coating)

Erik.
 
Raid, the purple smearing you saw with the Hologon is well known and well described. The model point/exit pupil of the lens is so close to the sensor, that the light the sides and edges of the sensor receive light from the lens at an extreme obtuse angle that's why the smearing gets worse away from the center of the image. Leica's legacy 21mm f3.4 lens has the same issue with digital M bodies. What I showed as an example of cyan blobs is completely different. It can show up anywhere on the frame and is not due to the lenses model point/exit pupil being too close to the sensor.

As for it being noticed during production, I'm not sure every combination of digital M cameras under every possible situation could be covered. Sometimes such anomalies occur when users experience them. Even Leica had a flare issue with their $5000 APO cron after it was released and apparently didn't come across the issue during initial testing and production. It happens. Leica actually had owners send back their lenses for correction and that is a lens released not all that long ago.

Even newly designed cars that are thoroughly tested, often had recalls due to issues that crop up during consumer use. Lots of things are not caught at the design and production stage.

Dave (D&A)
 
raid said:
When I first received my Hologon 16/8, I tried it on M8 and M9. Then I got a loaner M 240 from Leica. Same smearing observed. Each camera displayed strong purple smearing at the sides of each image taken with this lens. It is much more extreme than what you get with the 35/2 replica.

"sensor issue" in my view is not that your sensor is faulty due to dirt on it. It is a digital side effect of some sort.
Click to expand...

Acute ray angles of WA lenses and how they interact with digital sensors.
 
f.hayek said:
Acute ray angles of WA lenses and how they interact with digital sensors.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly what I described in my post above. Those obtuse angles of rays of light striking the sensor is primarily concentrated at the areas away from the center of the sensor (image). The sides and edges receive the highest concentration.

As I stated, this is not what I observed with the replica lens on the M9 (as explained in previous posts).

Dave (D&A)
 
Deardorff38 said:
[/I][/B]

Agreed
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Keep in mind that if it is sensor related, the original Leica 8 element on the exact same M9 did not display this phenomenon. Its possible something is slightly different with the replica vs. the original 8 element...maybe the coatings on the inner elements of the replica may be different. Maybe the internal baffling is different, which can result in light rays bouncing around in certain circumstances. This has been shown to be an issue that has sometimes cropped up in some modern lenses and had to be rectified by the manufacturer. I may be mistaken but it may have happened to a particular Leica lens in the modern era. Hard to say and make any sort of pronouncement at this point exactly what the issue is, in my opinion.

Dave (D&A)
 
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