New to developing & keep getting strange marks.. HELP

[Fwatson1990]

Hi,

I've just recently started developing my own black and white have been experimenting with different exposures and developing times try and better understand the full process. My problem is that on a handful of frames on most rolls I keep getting these same marks appearing in the same areas, when looking at the negatives it looks like its being caused by the film sprocket holes?

From what I've read online (but not seen any examples of) this can be caused by rough agitation while developing? The thing is I don't feel as if I am being rough and have always been consious of agitating at a slow rate to avoid this...

Does this look like that's what the problem here is or is there something else im missing?

Thanks for any help.

 

[retinax]

That can't be caused by agitation, it's too sharp edged for that and only in one place. I think it's a light leak. Were all rolls with this problem shot on the same camera? It is unusually sharp edged for a light leak as well... The position might point to it coming from the place where the light seal of the film door is interrupted for the film counter reset lever. Or the window that you can see the film canister through, if your camera has one. You could try covering the area with tape and if it helps, think about how to permanently solve it.

 

[Fwatson1990]

Thanks a lot for the quick reply, yeah all the rolls are from my M4. It seems strange that not every frame has this leak though if it is from the back door? Never the less I will try and tape over it and see if that fixes the issue....

 

[retinax]

Ah of course a Leica M doesn't have the type of film door I was thinking of, nor a canister window. M users will come to aid shortly! Maybe it's a known pattern. I recall something about the right strap lug leaking light.

Typically light leaks aren't the same on every frame, mostly because the film might rest shorter or longer in that position, and the camera might be exposed to more or less light from different directions.

 

[Fwatson1990]

ok I see, I see.. thanks for helping out.

I've just had a wee inspection of the back door and realised that the large piece of metal on in the inside of the backdoor that the film sits against that I have circled moves but not a lot... there's just a bit of play? May this have anythingto do with it?

 

[retinax]

ok I see, I see.. thanks for helping out.

I've just had a wee inspection of the back door and realised that the large piece of metal on in the inside of the backdoor that the film sits against that I have circled moves but not a lot... there's just a bit of play? May this have anythingto do with it?

I don't know how the pressure plate is attached on the M4, if there's a loose screw or rivet that could be it, but some play there is normal, and it should be completely dark in there anyway, so I don't think so.

 

[Fwatson1990]

Noticed these marks on the curtain, look like they may be sun damage and could be part of the reason?

I've been looking through the last few rolls I've shot and there only seems to be maybe 10 shots maximum out of 4 rolls that have these leaks which is throwing me....

 

[madNbad]

Check for any pinholes in the shutter curtain. Remove the lens, set the shutter to B, find a darkened room and a good light. Welcome to the forum, hope we can help.

 

[Fwatson1990]

Thanks a lot madNbad,

Cant see any pinholes, curtain seems to be fine and not letting any light through when I shine a torch at the curtain with the lens off and back door open..

I was looking through my photos in lightroom and noticed that 3 rolls I had sent to the lab to get developed less than a month ago are all fine which makes me think it is something I am doing while developing again? The rolls i had developed from the lab were shot over a month ago though so it may be a new problem that's just occurred in the last 2 weeks or so but I've not knocked the camera in anyway in that time.

I'm a bit stumped but will research a bit more.

 

[madNbad]

What is your process for loading the developing tank? Do you have a darkroom or a changing bag? There may be some light leaking in when you’re loading.

 

[Fwatson1990]

I use a changing bag but it's a small budget one and I've never had much faith in the arm holes when my arms are in it but the fact that the light leaks are always in the exact same position should eliminate that idea no?

I've attached some more shots from a previous roll to show you just how identical each of these marks are but they only appear on certain frames for some reason...

Just found this, very similar so going to try what he's done and see how it goes.

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130445

 

[retinax]

Aha it's also in the rebate area, so definitely not a hole in the curtains, that would be limited to the frame.

 

[Huss]

Looks like a light leak coming down the sprocket advance/film winder.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

On your next roll, tape across the top of the film door.

 

[jarski]

yep light leaks may not show on every frame if something outside camera was blocking the entry. I'd also try taping the back.

 

[Fwatson1990]

Thanks a lot for your help guys, the door on the back always had a little bit of play in it that I wasn't to sure about so it makes sense to be coming from there. I have put a strip of tape along the underside of the hinge and also on the bottom which the door and bass plate cover when shut. The door feels a lot more robust now and solid, im going to give this a try for the next roll and if it still persists after I will tape completely around the door to test that theory.

Thanks again guys, very helpful.

 

[retinax]

Thanks a lot for your help guys, the door on the back always had a little bit of play in it that I wasn't to sure about so it makes sense to be coming from there. I have put a strip of tape along the underside of the hinge and also on the bottom which the door and bass plate cover when shut. The door feels a lot more robust now and solid, im going to give this a try for the next roll and if it still persists after I will tape completely around the door to test that theory.

Thanks again guys, very helpful.

You should probably focus on the top of the door. The light leak is at the top, not the bottom. The projected image is upside down.

 

[Dan Daniel]

The leak could be happening when the film is either before or after the actual exposure area. I would discount the door and focus on things like the rewind knob, strap lugs, base plate, or such. Put the film back in the camera and see where the leak lines up in all three areas- when frame is being exposed, before exposure, and after exposure. When you have a pretty crisp line like yours show, I bet there is a roller or guide right where the leak is, blocking the light from going farther.

 

[DHK]

Sometimes leaks are slow. If you are rapidly shooting, they won't show up, but if you let the camera sit, the accumulation builds. I'd tape everything and number them, then take it off piece by piece throughout the roll, keeping track of which frame is which piece.

 

[Fwatson1990]

thanks guys,

ive just fired through a roll and developed it this afternoon to test it out.By putting the tape under the hinge and along the bottom of the back door I seem to have moved the leak to the right side of the frame now but it doesn't seem to be effecting the actual image its self, just the film rebate area and maybe just touching the image.

I'm going to do some scans tonight and see if these leaks are effecting the image.

Next I will try and tape around the back of the door... what a ****ty problem.