New Xtol not the same

Noserider said:
This is totally due to packaging failure of the new Xtol. Once again "Kodak" screws the pooch with a great product. I wonder how many people got burned with the 120 paper backing issue and how much that cost them in warranty replacement. I have a buddy who bought a large amount of the bad backing paper film and got all of it replaced by Kodak, and was a sad moment to have to trash all those unusable rolls of 120. Maybe 20-30 Pro-Packs of 5 hit the garbage. I also wonder how many people will decide not to use Xtol from this point on due to the uncertainty of any Xtol.
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I bought a large batch of TMAX400 in 120 size and as it turned out, EVERY LAST roll was ruined by the paper. Some of my most cherished moments with my family were shot with that film and it was all ruined. Horrific. I have never had a film failure like that before. Ever. I was so disgusted with Kodak I just tossed the remaining 40-50 rolls into the garbage and ate the loss. Money could not restore those trips overseas with my family.

I have not shot one frame of Kodak film since then.
 
Beemermark said:
Back to D-76. Been around forever and every company knows how to make it. Good developer also. Biggest advantage to me of Xtol was it seemed to last forever.
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Yes D76, Metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfate, borax.
Developing agents from Photographers Formulary, SS from the chemistry store, borax is 20 mule team from the laundry aisle.

Mix your own and you know how old it is and what is in it and it costs me 50 cents a liter.

Similar stuff in Dektol or D72 except sodium carbonate, Chemistry Store also.

You need a balance and stir rod and thermometer.
Small electronic scale, magnetic stirrer, Erlenmeyer flask, and magnetic stir rods make it really easy.
Get the one liter plastic flasks on Amazon.

When we changed vendors at work or started a new product, there was a first article inspection. What is wrong with Kodak?
Not my yellow father any more.
 
Ronald M said:
Yes D76, Metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfate, borax.
Developing agents from Photographers Formulary, SS from the chemistry store, borax is 20 mule team from the laundry aisle.

Mix your own and you know how old it is and what is in it and it costs me 50 cents a liter.

Similar stuff in Dektol or D72 except sodium carbonate, Chemistry Store also.

You need a balance and stir rod and thermometer.
Small electronic scale, magnetic stirrer, Erlenmeyer flask, and magnetic stir rods make it really easy.
Get the one liter plastic flasks on Amazon.

When we changed vendors at work or started a new product, there was a first article inspection. What is wrong with Kodak?
Not my yellow father any more.
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I believe you meant to say sodium sulfite, not sodium sulfate.

Sodium carbonate is also available in the supermarket as washing soda.
 
Ronald M said:
Yes D76, Metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfate, borax.
Developing agents from Photographers Formulary, SS from the chemistry store, borax is 20 mule team from the laundry aisle.

Mix your own and you know how old it is and what is in it and it costs me 50 cents a liter.

Similar stuff in Dektol or D72 except sodium carbonate, Chemistry Store also.

You need a balance and stir rod and thermometer.
Small electronic scale, magnetic stirrer, Erlenmeyer flask, and magnetic stir rods make it really easy.
Get the one liter plastic flasks on Amazon.

When we changed vendors at work or started a new product, there was a first article inspection. What is wrong with Kodak?
Not my yellow father any more.
Click to expand...

It is also possible to make up a phenidone/ascorbate based substitute for Dektol and avoid the use/exposure to/discharge to the environment of metol and hydroquinone.

I've been using my own version of a Phenidone/ascorbate paper developer
for three years now with results indistinguishable from Dektol on Ilford variable contrast paper (the only paper that I use).
 
Noserider said:
This is totally due to packaging failure of the new Xtol. Once again "Kodak" screws the pooch with a great product. I wonder how many people got burned with the 120 paper backing issue and how much that cost them in warranty replacement. I have a buddy who bought a large amount of the bad backing paper film and got all of it replaced by Kodak, and was a sad moment to have to trash all those unusable rolls of 120. Maybe 20-30 Pro-Packs of 5 hit the garbage. I also wonder how many people will decide not to use Xtol from this point on due to the uncertainty of any Xtol.

The two causes of the original sudden death Xtol were eventually determined and Xtol was stable for me (and others) for years in use my lab running it replenished. I'd mix between 2-3 5L packages per month for several (3-5) years doing thousands of rolls. Any reports or concern about sudden death were due to either the use of Xtol in an older package or not taking the step of at a minimum filtered water or distilled in mixing the stock.

I used to think that it any failure in the past few years was due to the iron in the water but unfortunately we now have to consider the very real possibility that all of the new Xtol product packaging is defective. I will be doing my own test with new and old packaging and believe me, I will be quite vocal to Kodak about my results, and I encourage any reader to do the same.
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The sudden death problem when Xtol was first introduced many years ago was caused by a packaging problem wasn't it? Crazy that they'd repeat that same mistake 20 yrs later.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
The sudden death problem when Xtol was first introduced many years ago was caused by a packaging problem wasn't it? Crazy that they'd repeat that same mistake 20 yrs later.
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It is unlikely that many of the technical staff who worked on Xtol problems in the past are still with Kodak.

Kodak's corporate memory walked out the door when staff was fired.
 
Kodak will probably get it together on the packaging. It is a bit of a challenge because although Kodak is making money again. their supply train is weakening. In response vertical reintegration is underway. It's happening to Kodak and in Germany to Adox, which is causing delays in releasing film stock much to customers' frustration. In the long run, though, the firms will become more resilient as they pull suppliers under their own umbrellas.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
The sudden death problem when Xtol was first introduced many years ago was caused by a packaging problem wasn't it? Crazy that they'd repeat that same mistake 20 yrs later.
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Chris, the packaging problem then was said to be that for some reason, never explained, the one-liter pack caused the "dreaded XTOL failure" and for some reason XTOL was OK in the five liter pack. It never made sense to me. BTW, I never had an XTOL failure in either size.

Schiller's in st. Louis, does not seem to be stocking XTOL any more. They do have D76.
 
IIIg said:
It is unlikely that many of the technical staff who worked on Xtol problems in the past are still with Kodak.

Kodak's corporate memory walked out the door when staff was fired.
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Sad, but true. XTOL is not a recent product from Kodak. The company has substantially reduced headcount since it was released.
 
I switched to tmax dev and haven’t looked back. Makes me wonder why I messed around with xtol for so long. It isn’t particularly cost effective though
 
Mooshoepork said:
I switched to tmax dev and haven’t looked back. Makes me wonder why I messed around with xtol for so long. It isn’t particularly cost effective though
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TMax developer is a good choice, and there are many others as well. I'll stick with Xtol because I like the quality and the low price. At my current rate of developing film I can easily finish the five liter supply before it expires, but if I slow down I would need to switch developers; there's no sin in throwing away expired Xtol but I don't like the waste.

I'll test the new Xtol with a sacrificial roll of film when I receive it, which is a good idea with any new developer of course.
 
Mooshoepork said:
I switched to tmax dev and haven’t looked back. Makes me wonder why I messed around with xtol for so long. It isn’t particularly cost effective though
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As far as I can tell Tmax is going be different too so you might want to look out for that.
 
2wenty said:
As far as I can tell Tmax is going be different too so you might want to look out for that.
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Some on Photrio's analogue forums have speculated that Kodak is getting their chemicals made now by the same American supplier that makes Freestyle's store-brand chemicals, and that the Kodak products are now identical to the Freestyle products, but at higher 'Kodak' prices.

I have tried the LegacyPro Lmax (Kodak Tmax Developer) and LegacyPro L-76 (D-76) developers and have found them to work identically to the Kodak products I had that were made in Germany by Tetanal before Kodak 'reformulated' their chemicals and brought production back to the US.

I'm going to keep buying the Freestyle stuff. The Lmax developer is an especially good deal; it costs half what Kodak's Tmax Developer does!
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Some on Photrio's analogue forums have speculated that Kodak is getting their chemicals made now by the same American supplier that makes Freestyle's store-brand chemicals, and that the Kodak products are now identical to the Freestyle products, but at higher 'Kodak' prices.

I have tried the LegacyPro Lmax (Kodak Tmax Developer) and LegacyPro L-76 (D-76) developers and have found them to work identically to the Kodak products I had that were made in Germany by Tetanal before Kodak 'reformulated' their chemicals and brought production back to the US.

I'm going to keep buying the Freestyle stuff. The Lmax developer is an especially good deal; it costs half what Kodak's Tmax Developer does!
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I ordered the LegacyPro Ecopro since its the same as XTOL and it looks like they have the foil packaging so I'm assuming they know whats up and it'll be fine. I'll just keep buying the Ecopro if all the times are the same.

Also going to switch from Kodafix to TF4. I'm not even going to attempt to keep using Kodak's stuff at this point. I don't have time to mess around or film to waste.

Also a little disappointed freestyle didn't offer to refund or replace the bad XTOL when I talked to them. They gave me Kodak's contact which seems lazy. I mean its their business. I assume they are just going to keep selling the bad XTOL. Also they initially didn't say anything when I asked what was up with the new packaging when I bought it. They only said they changed the packaging to save money. They should of said it's a new supplier.
 
Just saw this on FB:

xtol.png


Jim B.
 
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