Ok, here we go. In order of release:
Occupied Type I - approx. 300 lenses. f2 - f16. chrome only. marked MIOJ and Tokyo. no click stops. s/n 8011 to 801295
Occupied Type II - approx. 1,200 -1,300 lenses. f2 -f16. chrome only. marked MIOJ and Tokyo. no click stops. s/n 9031 - 9031156 (odd numbering system)
Occupied Type III - approx. 400 - 500 lenses. f2 - f16. chrome only. most marked MIOJ and all marked Tokyo. no click stops. s/n 286400 - 287700
Hybrid - approx. 3,000 lenses. f2 - f16 (f32 on later lenses). chrome only. early ones marked MIOJ. later ones marked Made in Japan. Tokyo is replaced by Japan on later lenses. early ones have no click stops. click stops start to appear around 289545. small engraving difference separates these from the earlier type.
Regular version - 20,770 lenses. f2 - f32. black barrel and chrome barrel intermixed. click stops. marked Japan. s/n 289550 - 296749 and 396301 - 404612
Final version - approx. 1,500 lenses. f2 - f32. click stops. black aluminium barrel. marked Japan. s/n 496301 - 497821. only S-mount and Contax mount. no LTM version.
rbsinto
Well-known
Jon,
Thanks for the information.
I also did a bit of research and discovered a few characteristics of the various releases, and checked them against mine.
My lens apertures go to f16, and it has a red focus line, red mounting dot and red "C" in the description "NIKKOR-P.C" in the white markings that surround the front element. They read: "NIKKOR-P.C 1:2 f=8.5 cm Nippon Kogaku Japan N0.289093" There is no infared focusing mark, but it does of course have engraved and black paint infilled aperture indication dot, aperture numbers, and distance scale (in feet).
And engraved on the rear lens cam is a very tiny and faint "MADE IN JAPAN"
So I assume my lens falls in that hybrid group and was made just a couple of hundred before they added the aperture detents.
Most important, though, it takes very nice pictures, despite the tonnage.
lattiboy
Member
As a quick follow-up:
I got the lens today and it is in FANTASTIC condition. Seriously, it looks absolutely mint outside the filter ding. The original case and caps are pristine, there is NO DUST in the lens, the glass is mint. I took a simple lens pen to the front and rear elements and they are just perfect.
The focus and aperture are incredibly dumb. Gotta hold the focus while adjusting the aperture. Can't believe the people who made this gorgeous piece of kit thought that was a good idea.
It is heavy, but not nearly as heavy as I had been lead to believe. I find it quite comfortable to single hand hold with a wrist strap.
My rainbow imaging adapter works wonderfully too. I'll get pics with the NEX-7 up when I have some time.
I got the lens today and it is in FANTASTIC condition. Seriously, it looks absolutely mint outside the filter ding. The original case and caps are pristine, there is NO DUST in the lens, the glass is mint. I took a simple lens pen to the front and rear elements and they are just perfect.
The focus and aperture are incredibly dumb. Gotta hold the focus while adjusting the aperture. Can't believe the people who made this gorgeous piece of kit thought that was a good idea.
It is heavy, but not nearly as heavy as I had been lead to believe. I find it quite comfortable to single hand hold with a wrist strap.
My rainbow imaging adapter works wonderfully too. I'll get pics with the NEX-7 up when I have some time.
Well, its 1940s technology so you have to accept these things. Double helicoid lenses didnt become the norm until later.
Congrats on the lens
kermaier
Well-known
I'd guess that the numbering system is:
Type 1: 194(8) January (01) lenses numbered 1-295
Type 2: 194(9) March (03) lenses numbered 1-1156
::Ari
kermaier
Well-known
BTW, mine is #403917 black barreled LTM.
::Ari
::Ari
DanOnRoute66
I now live in Des Moines
A case where, I suspect, at least a few of the bidders knew more about the lens than the seller, considering it certainly isn't for a Leica and (without being able to see whether there's a "C" on the lens barrel) may not be for a Contax, either.
menos
Veteran
What is the knowledge about this version:
"Regular version - 20,770 lenses. f2 - f32. black barrel and chrome barrel intermixed. click stops. marked Japan. s/n 289550 - 296749 and 396301 − 404612"
I am quite interested, followed up several deals on such lenses.
Is the entire black lens barrel and control rings made of aluminum or is the regular brass lens painted?
What are the details on these black version "regular" 85/2 in LTM mount?
furcafe
Veteran
Really 1930s technology, since the Nikkor-P's mechanics were just updates/upgrades of the Zeiss 8.5cm/2 Sonnar for the Contax.
Well, its 1940s technology so you have to accept these things. Double helicoid lenses didnt become the norm until later.
Congrats on the lens
sp9107sp
Well-known
lens counts
lens counts
Bob Rotoloni has been tracking the serial numbers of Nikon rangefinders since the early 1970's. even after publishing his second book with the updated information, he still tracks the information. some is published in the NHS journals
lens counts
Bob Rotoloni has been tracking the serial numbers of Nikon rangefinders since the early 1970's. even after publishing his second book with the updated information, he still tracks the information. some is published in the NHS journals
ferider
Veteran
I have black & chrome 397xxx in LTM, Dirk:
If there is aluminum on it, I don't see it; the black barrel is brassing nicely, and the front seems to be chromed brass as well. It is lighter than earlier all chrome versions that I had before though.
Roland.
kermaier
Well-known
FWIW, the older chrome LTM lens I had was #293137, and it had f/32 with click stops, and aperture settings marked only on one side of the barrel.
::Ari
menos
Veteran
I have black & chrome 397xxx in LTM, Dirk:
If there is aluminum on it, I don't see it; the black barrel is brassing nicely, and the front seems to be chromed brass as well. It is lighter than earlier all chrome versions that I had before though.
Roland.
That's now much clearer then.
So, the black version 1 85/2 is in fact a black enamel paint on brass lens with slight weight loss.
I had a seller claim his black lens barrel being made from aluminum, hence very lightweight, resulting me in dreaming about Carl-Zeiss pre war Sonnar lightweight (full aluminum barrel indeed).
Is the black paint version 1 reasonable to buy at current asking prices in excess of 1200 USD or is this money thrown to greedy dealers, catering to "might be" collectors?
Only the black final version (available in S-mount and C-mount only) has an aluminium barrel. Its noticeably lighter than previous versions.
All versions have the same optics, with incremental improvements made to coatings during the course of production.
menos
Veteran
Thanks for the clarification Jon.
Roland has mentioned a small difference in weight between the chrome early lenses and the black paint brass lenses.
I can nowhere find any weight info - how much is the difference?
Roland has mentioned a small difference in weight between the chrome early lenses and the black paint brass lenses.
I can nowhere find any weight info - how much is the difference?
I can look up the weights of the various S-mount lenses on Rotoloni's Nikon Rangefinder book when I get home tonight, but from memory the book has no such information on the LTM lenses.
kermaier
Well-known
My example of the black LTM version weighs 365 grams (without caps).
I no longer have the chrome version -- perhaps someone who has one can contribute empirical data?
::Ari
menos
Veteran
Thanks guys ;-)
This will do.
This site states 13oz (368.54 g) for the chrome sample in unspecified mount:
http://www.camerarepair.com/Used-Ca...es-C26/8.5cm-f2.0-Nikkor-P.C-Rangefinder-P60/
So if there is a difference, it might be very little then.
In any case, the 85/2 weights in ~200g less than the 85/1.5, which makes the black paint version 1 sample in LTM quite interesting then ;-)
Anybody has both a 85/2 and a 85/1.5 Nikkor, to compare the lenses around ƒ2 ?
This will do.
This site states 13oz (368.54 g) for the chrome sample in unspecified mount:
http://www.camerarepair.com/Used-Ca...es-C26/8.5cm-f2.0-Nikkor-P.C-Rangefinder-P60/
So if there is a difference, it might be very little then.
In any case, the 85/2 weights in ~200g less than the 85/1.5, which makes the black paint version 1 sample in LTM quite interesting then ;-)
Anybody has both a 85/2 and a 85/1.5 Nikkor, to compare the lenses around ƒ2 ?
I just weighed my S-mount final version black 8.5cm f2. It weighs 338 grams.
Rotoloni's book lists the weight of the version before mine (first black S-mount version) at 377 grams, and all versions before that at 435 grams. These weights are for the S-mount versions.
My guess is that the S-mount version is about 12 grams heavier than the corresponding LTM version, so 365 grams for the final LTM version in black or chrome (as per Ari's data) and 423 grams for older versions.
Rotoloni's book lists the weight of the version before mine (first black S-mount version) at 377 grams, and all versions before that at 435 grams. These weights are for the S-mount versions.
My guess is that the S-mount version is about 12 grams heavier than the corresponding LTM version, so 365 grams for the final LTM version in black or chrome (as per Ari's data) and 423 grams for older versions.
Vickko
Veteran
I love you guys. Please continue posting and talking about these old classic lenses.
I have a set of Nikon RF lenses and must admit that I use them far too infrequently.
Vick
I have a set of Nikon RF lenses and must admit that I use them far too infrequently.
Vick