HHPhoto
Well-known
Nikon has been very clear on this in their press release of their new mirrorless:
The F-mount will stay. And Nikon will develop new DSLRs in the future. The Nikon customers will get both: DSLR and DSLM.
And Nikon is right with this strategy, because the DSLR market is much bigger than the DSLM market.
Cheers, Jan
NickTrop
Veteran
This is what Nikon will exploit. Nikon sat back, let Sony develop the market, and when the timinig is right, will come in with a better product. Timing is everything, boysans. This is why Nikon just celebrated its 101 anniversary:
"The Sigma CEO has been quoted as expressing grave concern for the narrowness of the FE mount diameter:
"…the diameter is very small and makes it difficult to design high quality FF lenses … it almost looks like E-mount was designed for APS-C more than FF.
(Little wonder Sigma and Tamron don’t want to spend money on R&D for FE mount lenses, leaving us stuck mostly with expensive options from Sony and Zeiss.)
We also know that a narrow mount diameter is a big no-no with IBIS."
IBM was not the first mainframe maker. They sat back, "took notes", waited to see if the mainframe market was real/mirage, , short-term/long-term. Then, when the time was right came in and dominated with a better product that exploited the weaknesses of its competitors.
There is no size advantage with mirrorless once you slap (the vast majority of) a lens on the camera. So no need to have a "who can be the smallest contest". There is an area to exploit with the Sony mount. Too small. Nikon exploited it. There is a weakness to exploit with battery life if you're willing to be sensible about camera size. Expect a camera with much better, DSLR-like battery life. The camera will likely have in-body stabilization that's better than Sony. Faster/better lenses, better battery life (in all likelihood), better in-body stabilization. Camera might top Sony in video (by virtue of newness...). Sony is married to its mount. They can't, rightfully, come out with a different wider mount now, can they? No. No, they can't.
I'd say that's game, set, match.
Although I am happy with the camera bodies I currently own and am not in the market, I will always support those companies that have served the the photographic community long-term, like Nikon has for 101 years...
... over an electronic gadget/entertainment conglomerate that drifts in and out of markets. I don't want the same company responsible for the Ghostbusters remake making my stinkin' camera. Samsung? Out of the camera market. Casio? Out of the camera market. Panasonic? Probably next. Sony? When times get tough, they're apt to bail me thinks. There's ample precedence for this. Nikon? They'll fight to survive or die trying.
They're a camera maker.
I'm on team Nikon.
https://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/sonys-full-frame-pro-mirrorless-fatal-mistake/
"The Sigma CEO has been quoted as expressing grave concern for the narrowness of the FE mount diameter:
"…the diameter is very small and makes it difficult to design high quality FF lenses … it almost looks like E-mount was designed for APS-C more than FF.
(Little wonder Sigma and Tamron don’t want to spend money on R&D for FE mount lenses, leaving us stuck mostly with expensive options from Sony and Zeiss.)
We also know that a narrow mount diameter is a big no-no with IBIS."
IBM was not the first mainframe maker. They sat back, "took notes", waited to see if the mainframe market was real/mirage, , short-term/long-term. Then, when the time was right came in and dominated with a better product that exploited the weaknesses of its competitors.
There is no size advantage with mirrorless once you slap (the vast majority of) a lens on the camera. So no need to have a "who can be the smallest contest". There is an area to exploit with the Sony mount. Too small. Nikon exploited it. There is a weakness to exploit with battery life if you're willing to be sensible about camera size. Expect a camera with much better, DSLR-like battery life. The camera will likely have in-body stabilization that's better than Sony. Faster/better lenses, better battery life (in all likelihood), better in-body stabilization. Camera might top Sony in video (by virtue of newness...). Sony is married to its mount. They can't, rightfully, come out with a different wider mount now, can they? No. No, they can't.
I'd say that's game, set, match.
Although I am happy with the camera bodies I currently own and am not in the market, I will always support those companies that have served the the photographic community long-term, like Nikon has for 101 years...
... over an electronic gadget/entertainment conglomerate that drifts in and out of markets. I don't want the same company responsible for the Ghostbusters remake making my stinkin' camera. Samsung? Out of the camera market. Casio? Out of the camera market. Panasonic? Probably next. Sony? When times get tough, they're apt to bail me thinks. There's ample precedence for this. Nikon? They'll fight to survive or die trying.
They're a camera maker.
I'm on team Nikon.
https://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/sonys-full-frame-pro-mirrorless-fatal-mistake/
HHPhoto
Well-known
Indeed some very interesting aspects in that review.
Some further additional information on Sony mirrorless issues by Thom Hogan:
https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/...irrorless-cameras/sony-mirrorless-issues.html
Cheers, Jan
(have tested several mirrorless cameras, but none of them worked for me; I will stay with SLR / DSLR, which will save me thousands of bucks, too
)
narsuitus
Well-known
Too little too late for this Nikon user. I am now firmly entrenched in the Fuji mirrorless camp.
NickTrop
Veteran
For you, perhaps. Does Fuji make a full frame camera? I'm firmly unentrenched in any format smaller than full frame now that there is ample supply of depreciated full frame cameras in great condition with lots of life left in them on the used market. And full frame cameras have technologically matured to where the increase in megapixels is not a factor.
Kinda like the home computing market. Nobody ooh'n and a ahhhin' over that increase in processor speed or adding a core or two like they used to. The 24MP in my current camera oughta do me I reckon for a long, long time. Possibly till it dies (or I do. Hopefully "it"...). 6MP -> 12MP big jump. I'll upgrade. 12->24 MP eh -- maybe I bite. 12 MP still pretty good though. What will that cost me? 24MP--> 36 (or 48 MP). Eh.
MaxElmar
Well-known
I dumped all my Fuji stuff when they stopped making Acros. (I had planned to as soon as Nikon announced.) For digital, it's Nikon all the way for me. This cements it. No, it's not as pretty as my S2....
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
This all seems about right, if my crystal ball is working. I have had Sony full frame interchangeable lens mirrorless bodies, and won’t likely ever be going back to them for those reasons and ergonomics (though the RX1RII on the other hand is one of the best realizations of the concept of a camera that I have ever owned).
If Nikon makes a real camera with this opportunity, as opposed to being influenced by whatever was going on in the heads of the marketing or engineering people behind the Key Mission series, that would be great.
willie_901
Veteran
I wish Nikon well.
At the same time, I am deliriously happy using my X-Pro 2 and X100T.
While I can't imagine buying a Nikon camera, the potential for future sensors surface areas greater than 24 X 36mm is intriguing.
The Fujinon GF lenses enjoy an excellent reputation. Nikon can do just as well if they want to.
At the same time, I am deliriously happy using my X-Pro 2 and X100T.
While I can't imagine buying a Nikon camera, the potential for future sensors surface areas greater than 24 X 36mm is intriguing.
The Fujinon GF lenses enjoy an excellent reputation. Nikon can do just as well if they want to.
I expect Nikon to make a mirrorless better than the competition.
Even if everything else was equal, Nikon's menu and flash systems would be enough for Sony owners to switch. Add to that a kazillion adaptable Nikon F lenses.
Things are looking up for Nikon.
Stephen
Even if everything else was equal, Nikon's menu and flash systems would be enough for Sony owners to switch. Add to that a kazillion adaptable Nikon F lenses.
Things are looking up for Nikon.
Stephen
Yes, I understand that... at this point in time, I really don't care for the APSC vs. FF battle. APSC is pretty damn good. I guess I don't really understand your point... FF dictates body shape?
NickTrop
Veteran
As stated earlier. Their corp strategy was akin to IBM's entrance into the mainframe market. They hid in the bushes assessed the long-term viability of the market, as well as the strengths/weaknesses of their competitors offerings...
Is this a real market worth entering? Yes.
Is there a way to improve upon what's out there and leverage our existing custome base? Yes.
narsuitus
Well-known
Many years ago when I was only shooting film, I patiently waited for Nikon to produce a full-frame digital SLR. My wait was too long. I finally gave up and purchased Nikon APS-C digital SLRs.
I also patiently waited for Nikon to produce a mirrorless (APS-C or full-frame). Again, my wait was too long. I gave up and purchased Fuji APS-C digital mirrorless.
Now that my work flow has standardized around APS-C digital, I see no reason to change.
I also patiently waited for Nikon to produce a mirrorless (APS-C or full-frame). Again, my wait was too long. I gave up and purchased Fuji APS-C digital mirrorless.
Now that my work flow has standardized around APS-C digital, I see no reason to change.
NickTrop
Veteran
I waited for other manufacturers to come out with a reasonably priced 50mm/1.8 (or so) with autofocus. Whoever got to marekt first with an affordable nifty-fifty was getting my business. Nikon came out with the $200 35/1.8 DX in '09. I plunked down my money and have shot Nikon ever since.
Samsung was supposed to introduce a 50 pancake around the same time for their NX system. If they beat Nikon to the US market I likely would have went with Samsung. I'm sure glad I went with the established camera company.
Samsung was supposed to introduce a 50 pancake around the same time for their NX system. If they beat Nikon to the US market I likely would have went with Samsung. I'm sure glad I went with the established camera company.
Contarama
Well-known
First off head bartender I think the forum needs a new category.
What is this adapter like?
Cinema friendly?
Sensor made by? What does that sensor do different?
What is this adapter like?
Cinema friendly?
Sensor made by? What does that sensor do different?
LukasB
Established
I'm always happy to see new systems entering the market. Competition between brands has never been anything but good for the consumer. Whilst I'm not currently looking for a digital camera it's nice to know that if my preference changes I'll have more options to look at.
santino
FSU gear head
I guess sensor made by Nikon, right? As far as I know Nikon doesn't use Sony sensors in their pro bodys anymore...
Skiff
Well-known
+1.
And the competition will be brutal in the coming years:
The sales peak in the mirrorless segment was already in 2012. Since then no real growth anymore.
With Nikon and Canon now fully entering this segment we have eight suppliers in this relative small market. So far the established mirrorless manufacturers have either made losses or only small profits in this segment. This situation will difinitely not improve for them with Nikon and Canon now as additional competitors.....
Interesting to see which manufacturer can survive this fight in the long run.....
I wouldn't be surprised if more brands have to follow Samsung in the future.
DominikDUK
Well-known
The sensors for the D5 and the D850 are both made by Sony. With digital photography the Software side is often more important to the iq than the Chip. I wish Nikon the best of luck a new mount isn't really the best idea though
Archlich
Well-known
This is the future: Nikon and Canon are not rushing into an already crowded "niche" mirrorless market; by seriously committing the best of their resources to the new endeavor (they had to, as the new cameras will face imminent competition from the now formidable a7 cameras), they are turning their entire DSLR business with most of its existing customer base into the mirrorless. They will make the transition, the mirrorless market will dominate the scene, and DSLR will be dropped completely someday. Bodies like the a99 II will be released so those who got left behind could have a taste of the cutting edge, but no more lenses. No matter what Nikon says the D850 could very likely be digital F6 - the last of its kind.
Ditching the mirror box and saying goodbye to a 60-year heritage is a big thing - like SLRs taking over rangefinders, or the advent of autofocus. Only this time Nikon learnt to wait long enough that it's their customers actively calling for a new mount - and eventually getting what they asked for, so they did not "betray" F mount users like Canon once did to FD users. Almost cost them everything, but that's very Nikon-ish as well I'd say.
Ditching the mirror box and saying goodbye to a 60-year heritage is a big thing - like SLRs taking over rangefinders, or the advent of autofocus. Only this time Nikon learnt to wait long enough that it's their customers actively calling for a new mount - and eventually getting what they asked for, so they did not "betray" F mount users like Canon once did to FD users. Almost cost them everything, but that's very Nikon-ish as well I'd say.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Nikon has their own in-house sensor design. There has recently been a long report / factory visit about that:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...-inside-nikons-super-secret-sensor-design-lab
The completely new mount (with additional adapter for F-mount lenses) is by far the best solution in the long run. Because you can develop up to the best specs.
And are not limited to the old F-mount, which is not well suited for the needs of mirrorless.
Nikon have fortunately learned from Canon: Canon was heavily critised in 1987 when they introduced the new EF mount. But it was a great success, and Canon so kept his market leader position for decades.
Cheers, Jan