Nikon Df : sharing a message from Rachael Katz

There are lots of issues with manual focus and they present major problems for Nikon and for Katz.

Previous communications I have had with Rachel indicate they sized the "billet" or blank form for DX or perhaps a D700 with is a 95% screen. They can not make a full 100% 24x36 mm screen from the blanks . Replacing the billet is not economically feasible because of low volume sales.

Based on previous knowledge, the angle of the split prism is set for 5.6 or 2.8 lenses, I do not remember which. This was the proper decision when cameras used slower lenses, but now we are trying to use 1.4 and the accuracy is not sufficient.
If the angle is changed to optimize 1.4, then we get the dreaded half black split.
Back in the day, Nikon furnished different screens for for different speed lenses and they were field interchangeable. The frame precision required in manufacturing the camera was very high as was the screen/frame assembly. I believe no adjustment was possible. The camera was right or wrong. On todays consumer grade cameras, the screen is adjusted by shims to raise and lower to get it in the proper position.
On the better cameras, D200, D800, D3, there is a nice handy hex screw to accomplish the same thing.

Years back, screen position was never perfect and when the Katz screen was installed, perfect focus still could not be achieved unless it could be fine tuned with shims or hex. Katz provided this service, or if you were not fumble fingered they would get you the Nikon part numbers

for the shims. It was trial and error to remove and replace shims and dirt/damage easily resulted. I would not do it, so my 7000 remains Katzless.

I have no idea how the Df is constructed, shims or hex, or if it is 100% view at .7 magnification which disqualifies a Katz, but they need to speak for themselves on that.

Adding the split prism also compromises certain metering functions that rely heavily on the center area.

So it is not that Nikon hates manual focus, it is that the whole camera needs to be redesigned to accommodate it. They certainly know how, but the world has gone AF. Cost would escalate considerably.

I will say if the screen height is adjusted properly, Auto focus, green dot, and visual on the screen can all be made to agree as I have done it to several cameras, but not one that requires shim replacement. The shims are less than paper thin and require careful handling and without a supply of replacements, I would not do it.

I just checked the F2 and there is no screen height adjustment. only a stop adjustment for the mirror. You can fiddle with it, but it throws the picture off in an attempt to repair focus.
 
ive asked this question without reply in several DF threads: is it true that in manual focusing legacy glass on the DF that the AF confirm green light comes on when image is in focus?

i hope a DF owner can answer this; my old 5d worked this way and i never had a problem manual focusing.
tony

Yes. It even works with the pre-Ai lenses. And it works well, I might add, better than that particular feature on my old D700. The screen in the camera is also superior to that of the D700 though not great by F3 standards.

I believe use of the split prism type of screen interferes with autofocus on late model Nikon DSlRs. I've heard that but of course it might not be true.
 
Or perhaps as Ronald M points out, it is metering that the split prism interferes with. I know that I've heard repeatedly that it interferes with one of them anyway.
 
thank you vince. every camera has its limitations. my personal equation is are the results good enough for me to bend to those particular limitations. DF results are, imo, both stunning and not easily replicated with competing equipment. i think i personally can do a fair amount of bending to achieve what ive seen from this camera.
tony
 
KatzEye haven't made focusing screens for any new FF Nikon - I wanted a screen for my Nikon D800E, but I've been waiting nearly 2 years! I suspect you'll be waiting a long time (like forever!) for KatzEye...

Apart from DIY, I had only two choices: a Chinese screen from eBay or one from http://www.focusingscreen.com (based in Taiwan). The former work, but from what I've read on the web are poorly made, so the screen has marks and other artefacts that can be seen through the viewfinder; the latter have a good reputation, and use modified genuine Canon and Nikon screens.

I've bought a focusingscreen.com screen, but haven't got round to installing it yet - I'll report back when done! There are comprehensive instructions on focusingscreen.com, and the process looks straightforward. They note: "NIKON D800/600 changed focusing screen will not influence autofocus and focus point operation." However, there is nothing about exposure, which I think will be affected if matrix or spot (using the centre point) mode is used - I always use centre-weighted average by preference anyway, which is unaffected.

This official PDF from Canon on using its older dSLRS taht had alternative replaceable focusing screens explains the effect on exposure: http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_FocusingScreens_QuickGuide.pdf

Although focusingscreen.com have no Nikon Df screens listed yet, I'm sure they'll have them in a few months.
 
Now that we know that Katzeye won't do it, as opposed to can't, I suspect the Chinese are already on it, as they have been with cameras like my D300 ($20, Ebay). The metering problem is something that those of us who habitually MF can handle, I'm sure.

I fail to see how the mirror adjustment can't do the whole job, but I'm open to a concise explanation of that.
 
Because it doesn't earn them money if no one buys their autofocus lenses.

Actually I don't think this is true. I think they've produced a camera in recognition of what I call the nostalgia market, people who like myself are not professionals but serious photographers who love the old ways, the old equipment, the old look. they also still produce and sell a number of MF lenses. Check their website. I think they've gone as far as costs would allow. This camera has to have a high mark up from mfr cost because it's going to sell only in limited quantities.
 
Actually I don't think this is true. I think they've produced a camera in recognition of what I call the nostalgia market, people who like myself are not professionals but serious photographers who love the old ways, the old equipment, the old look. they also still produce and sell a number of MF lenses. Check their website. I think they've gone as far as costs would allow. This camera has to have a high mark up from mfr cost because it's going to sell only in limited quantities.

I think the number of MF lenses is like.. 1 miserable lens, the 50/1.2 in the entire catalogue?
 
Actually I don't think this is true. I think they've produced a camera in recognition of what I call the nostalgia market, people who like myself are not professionals but serious photographers who love the old ways, the old equipment, the old look. they also still produce and sell a number of MF lenses. Check their website. I think they've gone as far as costs would allow. This camera has to have a high mark up from mfr cost because it's going to sell only in limited quantities.

In addition, these are tough times for camera makers and each is trying to find some as-yet unfilled niche. There is an enormous number of high quality MF Nikkor lenses out in the wild. If Nikon can make a digital body that performs well with those lenses, in fact one where those lenses seem a natural fit, there's useful potential for Nikon's bottom line. Whether the Df is that digital body would seem to be at the heart of these ongoing discussions.
 
I think the number of MF lenses is like.. 1 miserable lens, the 50/1.2 in the entire catalogue?

Really? Here's a quote from the B&H website [dated 2010]:

"Though greatly scaled back, production of many manual-focus Nikkor optics has continued in short runs since the advent of AF and AF-S Nikkor lenses, and as a result, Nikon has been able to quickly reboot its manufacturing schedule of a series of classic manual-focus Nikkors including the Nikkor 20mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 24mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 AI-S, Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 AI-S and Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AI-S. All of these lenses are currently in production and in stock, with the exception of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4, which is expected to be back in circulation in October."

I was just at the B&H site, and I count around 10 manual focus Nikkor lenses in their catalog.
 
What I don't understand is why Nikon ever moved away from swappable prisms / field-swappable screens in the single-digit pro models... It allows them to charge for aftermarket accessories. It can't be the weather seal... My F3 stays out of the bag through all kinds of rain and I have never, ever had an issue with the prism seal... And the engraved screens are so much nicer than the projected-LCD lines that I have a hard time believing the target market for the single-digit series wouldn't pay up for a few screens.
 
What I don't understand is why Nikon ever moved away from swappable prisms / field-swappable screens in the single-digit pro models... It allows them to charge for aftermarket accessories.
I suspect it boils down to economics and market expectations:
  • Too much effort for too little return. How many photographers actually bothered to swop screens in the early dSLRs by Canon and Nikon? Not many I suspect, and I bet the number dwindled as photographers became used to digital and advanced autofocus and autoexposure.
  • The old manual-focus screens and modern computer-controlled cameras don't work well together - the latter compromise the former, e.g. incorrect exposures can occur unless you know how to avoid this (see my post above). Today's consumers expect their goods to work flawlessly, and manufacturers will do all they can to avoid negative publicity. So, I expect Nikon and Canon are aware that manual-focus screens could lead to customer complaints about bad exposures and "flawed" cameras - and why they dropped these screens. (This also being the reason, I suspect, for the the dials on the Nikon Df being locked - so consumers won't complain about ruined photos because a control accidentally moved. And also why most cameras have an antialiasing filter over the sensor to prevent moire (and complaints) despite degrading the image - high-end cameras such as the digital Leica Ms and digital backs omit these, presumably because the target audience is knowledgeable about moire and thus won't complain about it.)
In short, unless significant numbers of professional/serious photographers demand screens optimised for manual focus, such screens will never appear in another camera.
 
So it is not that Nikon hates manual focus, it is that the whole camera needs to be redesigned to accommodate it. They certainly know how, but the world has gone AF. Cost would escalate considerably.

fwiw, this is precisely what a Nikon representative told me (not a regional sales rep but a Nikon rep from the NY office.)
 
It earns them less money from me because I will never buy another new Nikon body because they hate manual focus.

Your demographic represents too low a return on investment for them to bother. If you want something go mirrorless. Sony seems to be more in the business of selling bodies than lenses anyway.

JRG said:
Really? Here's a quote from the B&H website [dated 2010]:

"Though greatly scaled back, production of many manual-focus Nikkor optics has continued in short runs since the advent of AF and AF-S Nikkor lenses, and as a result, Nikon has been able to quickly reboot its manufacturing schedule of a series of classic manual-focus Nikkors including the Nikkor 20mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 24mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 AI-S, Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 AI-S and Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AI-S. All of these lenses are currently in production and in stock, with the exception of the Nikkor 35mm f/1.4, which is expected to be back in circulation in October."

I was just at the B&H site, and I count around 10 manual focus Nikkor lenses in their catalog.

Alright. Conceded. But so what? Isn't it more likely that they are producing these for those who are still holding onto F bodies and not D bodies?
 
Your demographic represents too low a return on investment for them to bother. If you want something go mirrorless. Sony seems to be more in the business of selling bodies than lenses anyway.



Alright. Conceded. But so what? Isn't it more likely that they are producing these for those who are still holding onto F bodies and not D bodies?

I dunno. I've now got a few F and FM/FE bodies. I've also got a few manual focus lenses that were purchased well before digital bodies appeared, plus many lenses that were purchased afterward. And even if I happened to have missed some gem from back in the good ole days, there's no shortage of supply here at RFF, at KEH, etc. Why would I need to buy a brand new MF lens for my F FM/FE bodies?

[Truth be told: Back in the day, I owned only a very battered F and a decent F2, a 55 Micro, a 105/2.5, and a 28/2.8; all I could afford. But subsequently, the flood of digital gear triggered a very large selloff of the oldies-but-goodies, and that's when I nabbed most of my current assortment of Nikon SLR gear.

In fact, I was sort of surprised to learn that Nikon still makes MF lenses. It's hard for me to believe that a current production MF 55 Micro, 105, 105 Micro, etc. is really a whole lot better than its ancestor from pre-digital days.]
 
I already went mirrorless.

Nikon made that decision easy. I understand Nikon can't please everyone. At the same time, I have spent a lot of money on the Fujifilm X system and will spend another $1,000 by April 1. Despite the total collapse of the compact camera market due to Smart phones, I guess Nikon's cash flow is so strong they don't need the $1k to $2k a year I've spent with Fujifilm during the past three years.

It seems to me their Df marketing was aimed at my demographic, but I guess different people can easily interpret the Df marketing strategy completely differently.

The funny thing is, if the Df supported split-screen analog manual focusing, I would probably own one by now. Instead I sold my AI/AIS primes to KEH right after the Df details became public. The money doesn't matter to me. Enjoying using the camera comes first and I already gave the green dot a try with the D200/300/700 bodies.
 
If the angle is changed to optimize 1.4, then we get the dreaded half black split.
Adding the split prism also compromises certain metering functions that rely heavily on the center area.
So it is not that Nikon hates manual focus, it is that the whole camera needs to be redesigned to accommodate it.

fwiw, this is precisely what a Nikon representative told me (not a regional sales rep but a Nikon rep from the NY office.)

They do it for the F6 which uses the exact same screen blanks as the D3 does. The screens are just more expensive than their competition.

Regarding the half-prism blackout of slower lenses, the Canon screens get round this by keeping the center spot of the screen brighter by a full stop though the rest of the field is a nice coarse grit optimized for a fast lens.

The meter function that *may* be affected is spot metering in the D3. We don't know if Nikon switched their read-area (in the Df) again to off the half-mirror as in the D2H/X but in the D3 supposedly the spot meter can go wonky as it sees a clear area right where it is supposed to be reading a translucent one. I've NEVER had a problem with this in the last eight months of constant shooting of the D3 with the Canon screen in and I've used spot metering a lot for night time football games.

The camera doesn't need to be redesigned at all. We all lived with the old focusing screens on the pro series (which were very coarse grit but were made bright through use of a condenser as part of the screen assembly) and they were plenty good. They were even good enough for fifteen years between the first F4 and the last F5. Nikon had made the switch to f/2.8 max aperture zooms then and the screen brightness change didn't happen until the F5. Even before the F4, we lived just fine with the "dim" screens of the manual film bodies. Either that or something happened and the world got darker by two stops and all those old cameras ceased to be usable with slower lenses.

As for field-changeable screens, I don't know of anyone who actually did that in the field. Back in the Navy, on my ship we used F4s and F5s almost exclusively. We had a full stable of focusing screens but they would be swapped in only for the snoopy team using a 600mm lens with teleconverter. We all got to play around with the screens to see where they would benefit us but when we needed to get the shots and not fiddle around with a screen and a delicate prism, we just exposed the film and went on.

There are ways around the Df screen issues and maybe Nikon will address them, and maybe they won't. They surely aren't making money off of used lenses though so I think this planned oversight is just born out of profit motive to increase sales of new optics. Lord knows you can't get a new Noct-Nikkor anymore from Nikon but for a few folks around who have that lens and a Df and swap in a good precision screen, I bet they are happy as a pig in s#!t.

Saying it can't be done is a cop out on Nikon's part when folks like myself are doing it for less than $60 and are getting fantastic results from some very difficult to focus (without optical focusing aid) lenses.

Phil Forrest
 
+1.

That costs increase reason given by Nikon is just BS.

Implementing a flippable focusing screen chassis of the same design as the one of the FM3A in the Df would have costed peanuts.

Then, the camera would have come with two focusing screens series : some for AF lenses (with microlenses and the like, with nothing else on them, now that the optional grid array ala E and R screens is integrated to the viewfinder itself), some for MF lenses (basically the same screens but with a split image center spot or other options for manual focusing). If the only concern was the impossibility to use the spot metering mode with MF lenses (or, more likely, the need of using the expo value compensating dial), MF lenses owners and users wouldn't care the least.

Look at what Nikon made on one of their best AF SLRs which had a factory screen as bright as the Df one :

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/htmls/models/htmls/Nikonf801sN8008s.htm

Impossible to have interchangeable focusing screens in such a camera ? Ha, ha, ha. 🙄
 
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