Nikon DF

[dmc]

A lot of what I am reading on this thread speaks to the comparisons of the Sony and Nikon products. I think this misses the point. Nikon is not making the Df as a replacement camera, it is an additional camera. To say the A7 is going to beat the pants off the Df is disingenuous. The point is the D4 is going to beat the pants off the A7, as will the D5 and the D10, when they come along. The Df is just a choice that Nikon is offering to their clients, not a D4 replacement.

Pro's are not dumping their D4's and 1Dx's for Sony anything. Sony makes a great product, but it is not professional grade.

 

[gavinlg]

"The whole point of these sort of cameras (fuji x and nikon df) is that some of us actually don't want video. We don't want the option. We don't want the option to geotag photos, or to have creative filters in camera, or transmit photos to our cellphone. We just want the best of IQ, build and ergos in a simple and mechanically prominent camera body. We don't want to be able to customize every button or for it to transform into a blender so I can blend smoothies. If I want to do video I will buy a video camera.

A lot of sony and panasonics still cameras have movie record buttons on the top plates which are easy to accidentally hit. We don't want that bull****, no sir. Just about every other digital camera on the market has video - the pros you speak of are spoiled for choice. They probably already have a video ready dslr. Thats why this one doesn't need it."

Well put --- thank you!

A DSLR that doesn't do video? Why it might as well not have a pump for inflating my bike tires! Whatever was Nikon thinking?


On the other hand, I am also aware that some us here really think of video as a critical feature. And others just have to be able to geotag, or need a button that will transmit photos to a cellphone without further ado, or ... .

Hence the difficulty Nikon (or anyone else) finds in trying to design a product that is actually different that what's already out there.

Yup. The feature driven mindset that consumers are so obsessed with is what fuels all these blobby/bloated/heavy/jack of all trades/master of none designs in just about any area you can think of - cars/cameras/phones/computers. Good design is as simple as you can possibly make it without reducing functionality. Considering this camera is aimed specifically at purist photographers, the top plate (at least) is about as functional as you can get.

 

[uhoh7]

The point is the D4 is going to beat the pants off the A7, as will the D5 and the D10, when they come along. The Df is just a choice that Nikon is offering to their clients, not a D4 replacement.

Hard to beat the pants off anything if you are often left at home because your shooter wants to travel light.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Sony is throwing the long bomb: here is your new front line machine, Mr Pro. It basically does almost everything. Despite claims to contrary, with LAEA4 and Alpha glass it will AF fine for sports--as well as any DSLR.

Can't see this at all. You need long, bright glass for sports. The Sony A mount lenses, in telephoto, are as expensive or more so than comparable glass from Nikon and Canon, so why on earth would you want to use glass that is the same price, plus an adapter, to attach it all to a body that is not as robust as what Nikon and Canon offer. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Keith]

This thread is in danger of becoming a Sony verses Nikon rant. If I want to hear all about the latest Sony cameras I'll peruse the appropriate threads. 😀

 

[DNG]

Any idea what that big knob is, next to the Df logo? Looks like it twists. On the front, just below where the shutter release would be?

Some kind of electrical port? Strange that it would be on the front and not the side.

Near the DF Logo: Maybe an AF/MF switch?
Under the Shutter.. the Cover or wheel? Mystery to me...

 

[uhoh7]

Can't see this at all. You need long, bright glass for sports. The Sony A mount lenses, in telephoto, are as expensive or more so than comparable glass from Nikon and Canon, so why on earth would you want to use glass that is the same price, plus an adapter, to attach it all to a body that is not as robust as what Nikon and Canon offer. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Best,
-Tim

Well, maybe, because that's not the only thing it can do? You can pull it off the tele, and slap on a cv 35/1.2 and shoot the crowd and tailgaits without seeming like you work for the NSA.

Just my take. 🙂

I do own both 70400g and 35/1.2 at the moment, so not a dream for me.

 

[Paddy C]

If you were to hand a DF and a Sony a850 (which I own) to most photographers (other things being equal), I would be surprised if the DF was seen as a truly more useable camera despite its knobs and glorious top plate.

Don't need movies, goetagging, etc. then don't use them.

We live in a digital age. Is it so bad? Is it so difficult to get used to?

Nikon is about to strip features and specs, wrap all the standard digital guts in a retro-ish body and charge a lot.

I'm just sort of perplexed at all the interest. 😕

 

[Keith]

If you were to hand a DF and a Sony a850 (which I own) to most photographers (other things being equal), I would be surprised if the DF was seen as a truly more useable camera despite its knobs and glorious top plate.

Don't need movies, goetagging, etc. then don't use them.

We live in a digital age. Is it so bad? Is it so difficult to get used to?

Nikon is about to strip features and specs, wrap all the standard digital guts in a retro-ish body and charge a lot.

I'm just sort of perplexed at all the interest. 😕

Perplexed maybe but interest there certainly appears to be aplenty!

Maybe photography isn't all about having the smallest full frame system camera on the market after all?

 

[jsrockit]

Nikon is about to strip features and specs, wrap all the standard digital guts in a retro-ish body and charge a lot.

I'm just sort of perplexed at all the interest. 😕

I get what you mean. I'm generally the type to fall for shutter speed dials and dedicated buttons / knobs per function (and yeah, i guess a retro look). However, when I saw this today it really looks like Nikon took its typical DSLR, slapped a new angled skin on it, and went for the win in a camera company switch / dial contest.

I wanted to like this... but the RFF cliche "The Emperor's New Clothes" seems to fit here. Well, I guess the D4 sensor is a plus.

 

[lam]

Nikon D4, 11 fps.
Nikon Df, 5.5 fps.

Half the cost, half the performance perhaps? 🙂

 

[uhoh7]

Nikon D4, 11 fps.
Nikon Df, 5.5 fps.

Half the cost, half the performance perhaps? 🙂

Good point, A7 also poor FPS.

It seems to me the comparison is inevitable. The Nikon is pointed at the "retro market", MF, pure photography.

A few years ago that market was pretty small, film users, and a handful of Leica shooters.

Enter Sony. Within 6 months of Nex-5 introduction in 2010 adapters for every mount became available, and all of a sudden those old lenses in the closet could actually be used without the hassle of film.

All over the world pics emerged of every sort of lens on a Nex camera. Of course, here the lack of RF and the fact it looked strange, made it seem pretty laughable to many in these rarified climes.

Except the nex users, who grew in number and began posting their shots. Image quality was fantastic for a 500.00 camera.

I contend that was a big kick start for the "retro" market. Sony basically built it, and now Nikon is giving the idea a nod......but in a very different way.

Their retro camera does less, not more. It truly is a niche camera.

I think it's actually a gorgeous camera, and the build looks fantastic---but then I don't give a damn what my camera looks like.

I only care what it can do and where I can take it.

The DF is F mount exclusive and quite large. Yes. I've got 8 great old nikon lenses, one I actually use all the time. 180 ais ED.

So as much as I love old glass---and I have quite a bit---as much as I'm "retro" in that respect, the DF is not useful to me. I'd much rather have an M8. or 9.

Anyway, I can see how a real NIkon fan could love the thing and I honestly hope it does well----so does Sony BTW:

from FM

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I thought the part about Sony actually wanting Canon to compete against them in order to grow the market was interesting:

"Worry? I don’t have any worries at all right now! Seriously though, I do think about countermeasures from other manufacturers - so for example I think about whether Canon will create a product to compete with us. I’m interested in whether they will do this, because enhancing the market together is important."
Kimio Maki

 

[fireblade]

Nikon D4, 11 fps.
Nikon Df, 5.5 fps.
Half the cost, half the performance perhaps? 🙂

...but fps would not be what this camera is geared for..no?

 

[uhoh7]

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_9PD6O_zZE

🙂

Beautiful thing 🙂

 

[JeffNYC]

It remains to be seen if the Df truly rivals the D4 (high) ISO performance.

 

[farlymac]

I'm a Nikon fan, uhoh7, and I think the thing looks clunky. Other than the truncated top deck (no need for the film chamber space) which in the silver has that classic FM look to it, it's just like the D4, with all the buttons in the world scattered about.

It's quite thick, too. That grip is going to come in handy.

I would have liked to see it just have the dials for shutter, aperture, and ISO settings. Plus a menu selection for what type of film one would like to pretend they have in the camera (with a side program that could mimic the look of expired film). And that's it.

So I think Nikon was actually going for those who need to have fifty million functions at their beck and call, not the true enthusiast.

PF

 

[JeffNYC]

I'm a Nikon fan, uhoh7, and I think the thing looks clunky. Other than the truncated top deck (no need for the film chamber space) which in the silver has that classic FM look to it, it's just like the D4, with all the buttons in the world scattered about.

It's quite thick, too. That grip is going to come in handy.

I would have liked to see it just have the dials for shutter, aperture, and ISO settings. Plus a menu selection for what type of film one would like to pretend they have in the camera (with a side program that could mimic the look of expired film). And that's it.

So I think Nikon was actually going for those who need to have fifty million functions at their beck and call, not the true enthusiast.

PF

I think it's only a matter of time before some type of film emulation is part of the menu. Obviously it wouldn't have the finer (custom) adjustments like Alien Skin, Silver Efex, etc... But. some basic emulation process.

 

[uhoh7]

I'm a Nikon fan, uhoh7, and I think the thing looks clunky. Other than the truncated top deck (no need for the film chamber space) which in the silver has that classic FM look to it, it's just like the D4, with all the buttons in the world scattered about.

It's quite thick, too. That grip is going to come in handy.

I would have liked to see it just have the dials for shutter, aperture, and ISO settings. Plus a menu selection for what type of film one would like to pretend they have in the camera (with a side program that could mimic the look of expired film). And that's it.

So I think Nikon was actually going for those who need to have fifty million functions at their beck and call, not the true enthusiast.

PF

Hey, many beautiful things also are a little pudgy:

The new Canon Digital Sumo!

Classic, yet huge!

 

[Samouraï]

If you were to hand a DF and a Sony a850 (which I own) to most photographers (other things being equal), I would be surprised if the DF was seen as a truly more useable camera despite its knobs and glorious top plate.

Don't need movies, goetagging, etc. then don't use them.

We live in a digital age. Is it so bad? Is it so difficult to get used to?

Nikon is about to strip features and specs, wrap all the standard digital guts in a retro-ish body and charge a lot.

I'm just sort of perplexed at all the interest. 😕

I prefer to read real books instead of ebooks. Why not have a pared down, high-end camera? We have tens to hundreds of video capable DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. Why not have one or two that try to grasp something simpler and more focused? If I wanted hundreds of needless extras and options, I'd buy one of any other camera. But if I don't want all the doodads and whatnots, it would be nice to have a camera that doesn't waste its time with them (the Sigma SD1M is the only one I can think of).

The phrase goes: jack of all trades, master of none. Now it's not exactly true of modern, top-end DSLRs. But I think it is generally true of many things in life. And there is something to be said for having less distractions and more focus. Unfortunately, the DF seems to almost have even more distractions than a regular DSLR! I'm glad it has forgone video, however. With Blackmagic Cinema cameras shooting 4K for 4K, what's the point anymore?

 

[uhoh7]

First Impressions:
http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/nikon-df-first-impressions-review

"The Df offers fantastic build quality, full weather sealing, and phenomenal manual controls that are all but unheard of in digital SLRs. It’s stuffed with some of the best tech on the market today, and it’s also a gorgeous design, striking the perfect balance between classic lines and modern convenience.

This isn’t a perfect camera. (Though, honestly, what is?) Hardcore manual focus fans—presumably one of Nikon’s key demographics—are going to be upset at the fixed and far-from-ideal focusing screen. There will also be more than a few potential buyers who are turned away by the brilliant but resolution-limited 16-megapixel sensor. And even with the mighty D4 sensor, the $2,750 price tag presents its own challenges.
Alongside the Sony Alpha A7, the Nikon Df is one of the most exciting enthusiast cameras we’ve seen in some time. Each is drool-worthy in its own way: Sony’s cool, sleek futurism is every bit as enticing as Nikon’s warm and fuzzy nostalgia. But where the Sony camera wants to capture your mind, the Nikon is aimed right at your heart. Ultimately, which one speaks to you will have a lot to do with which organ you tend to listen to (and how many old Nikkors you have laying around)."