Nikon DF

It's not your average plastic obviously but why should cameras be exempt from choices of ultra modern materials where appropriate ?
In this case (i.e., if plastic is better) why don't they build all their modern cameras (including the D800, D800E and D4) the same way ?

Instead, the top-of-the-line Nikon bodies are 100% metal, and their prosumers cameras are plastic/metal.

Hmmm.
 
Sorry but I Don't buy this. RC cars aren't a great example because comparatively they are extremely light (I used to have a really good one too) so the forces imparted on their components are not that high (comparatively to a normal car). If composites were so much more rigid and light than metal they would use them for general automotive suspension components. Especially the companies that are striving for lower weight designs in search of higher performance - think the BMW M3, the porsche 911, all of which generally use aluminum suspension arms and supports.

It is true that cars like the mclaren mp12-4c use a carbon composite monocoque chassis but that is FAR beyond what is going into a consumer camera.

edit: For that matter - why wouldn't the canon 1dx or the d4 use composite chassis if they were actually better and lighter?


I'm talking RC cars that cost thousands of dollars to build and they aren't that light and travel at ballistic speeds. Get hit by one at full speed and it can break your leg! I see the state my son's car comes home in occasionally after a race meeting and you don't have to look too hard to see that the stresses on these things matches anything on a full sized car in terms of scale.
 
Because you, the buyer, have outdated views about "plastics" and won't buy it.
Fairly possible.

Yet some years ago I have owned an (otherwise very capable) DSLR built on a plastic-fantastic chassis and could hear it crack when I mounted the 180/2.8 ED Ai-S lens on it (the only time I mistakenly grabbed the combo by gripping the camera body not the lens barrel).

Honestly I don't think weight is why they use plastic. Its sole purpose is cost cutting.
+1
 
Anyway ... I've come to the conclusion that we're running out of faults to find with this camera so we will logically now turn on each other.

It may be time to go to bed! LOL 😀
 
That's my question really! Do you need the split screen?


The problem is that with modern laser cut focus screens you cant see better than f/2.8 ~ f/2.0 (depending on the model) in the viewfinder so, visually, you cant achieve accurate focus on fast manual lenses. It also doesn't matter what people want to say about how they've never had an issue - its either been luck or they haven't noticed its not dead sharp - but the physics of how the viewfinder optical path is constructed does not allow the user to see the true DoF at apertures wider than these. This is why people expected the split prism focus capability of the focus screen to avoid this problem...
 
Sorry but I Don't buy this. RC cars aren't a great example because comparatively they are extremely light (I used to have a really good one too) so the forces imparted on their components are not that high (comparatively to a normal car). If composites were so much more rigid and light than metal they would use them for general automotive suspension components. Especially the companies that are striving for lower weight designs in search of higher performance - think the BMW M3, the porsche 911, all of which generally use aluminum suspension arms and supports.

It is true that cars like the mclaren mp12-4c use a carbon composite monocoque chassis but that is FAR beyond what is going into a consumer camera.

edit: For that matter - why wouldn't the canon 1dx or the d4 use composite chassis if they were actually better and lighter?

There are lots of reasons that manufacturers use different materials. Their own designing and processing expertise, reliance on quality suppliers, cost, availability in the quantities needed, rejection rates, etc etc. You will have to ask BMW etc etc why they do what they do. My guess is that aluminum is cheap, easy to work with and repairable by your local mechanics.

Everything I said above about composite materials is correct.

Pro camera bodies ? - most people paying $$$$$ for their pro gear equate "heavy" with "good and strong", and "light" with "cheap and throw away". Also, to some extent, more weight (to a degree) is actually more comfortable, and reduces vibration levels.
 
The problem is that with modern laser cut focus screens you cant see better than f/2.8 ~ f/2.0 (depending on the model) in the viewfinder so, visually, you cant achieve accurate focus on fast manual lenses. It also doesn't matter what people want to say about how they've never had an issue - its either been luck or they haven't noticed its not dead sharp - but the physics of how the viewfinder optical path is constructed does not allow the user to see the true DoF at apertures wider than these. This is why people expected the split prism focus capability of the focus screen to avoid this problem...

So I wont be able to focus my 50mm Ais 1,2 Nikkor lens on this camera???
 
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Sigh. I'm out. All I wanted was easy manual focus. 🙁

So frustrated.

"All of this emphasis on manual focus makes it quite puzzling that Nikon has opted for a non-removable focusing screen. The screen the Df picked up from the D600 is certainly adequate for users accustomed to modern full-frame Nikon bodies, but it’s not as as usable (or as large) as old-school split-prism screens and other specialized solutions. Hardcore manual focus geeks may be dismayed at Nikon’s approach here."

^^Such a boneheaded approach.

Exactly my feelings right now.
 
Now this is what a real camera top plate must look like.

IMG_1650.jpg


😀

I agree! 🙂
 
A polished turd

A polished turd

Damn! :bang:

When I heard about the DF I decided if it matched its hype I'd sell my Nikon D800E to get it, even though I'd lose money... I find dial controls much more intuitive than menus and LCDs.

Unfortunately, the DF is a polished turd! A camera blinged up so much it looks like a Las Vegas casino!

(1) Ignoring the "trying too hard" aesthetics, which I could live with - after all, a camera's just a tool, so looks matter little - the controls are far from ergonomic: what's with them all being locked, so you either have to push down a button while turning a dial or, worse, pull up a dial to turn it! Hardly user friendly to operate when holding the camera to your eye while attempting to frame!?

(2) Despite the marketing hype about the DF being built for manual lenses, the viewfinder is identical to every other Nikon dSLR - designed primarily for autofocus. For critical focus, the focusing screen will not cut the mustard - it's simply not precise enough if you have require a very specific focus point or a shallow depth of field (e.g. in my "Insecta" project, taken with a 55mm manual macro lens). I expect it will have Nikon's focusing LED - which doesn't help: it has "slack", so fails to indicate the exact point of focus, and placed at the viewfinder edge it takes your eye away from the subject.

Canon provides optional split-prism screens so Nikon could have too (all dSLR screens are easily removable, so this isn't a cost issue - I replaced my D800E screen with a modified Canon one in 5 minutes!).

(3) And why only 16 MP? I specifically bought the Nikon D800E because of its 36 MP sensor. Granted, I'm unusual in that some of my photos are destined to be very large prints on the gallery wall that need to be pin sharp close up (although there is a sensible viewing distance for large prints, people will always go close) while others need to be large because that's what my photo agency requires. I was prepared to downgrade to 24 MP or so - but not 16 MP.

The Nikon D4 only has 16 MP because it suits it's target users - such as photojournalists who need a responsive camera and small files that are fast to process and send digitally, and are unlikely to need large prints. Many of the reasons for a low-resolution sensor don't apply to the DF users - they're unlikely to be professionals needing speed, and the DF lacks features that take advantage of the small sensor (e.g. it has a frame rate half that of the D4, lower than most other dSLRs).

Earlier in this thread someone wrote "12~16MP FF sensor is nice (correct pixel density so that the lenses aren't producing muddy images). Over this megapixel count, you'll be disappointed with the results." Not true for high end cameras: I'll put my D800E up against the D4 any day (comparison here) - and I can guarantee that prints from the D800E will equal or better the D4.

In short, the DF is a posers camera. I can only assume posers are Nikon's target for this camera. Why else the "child locks" on the controls to prevent accidents; a viewfinder optimised for autofocus lenses; and the low resolution sensor>

Epic fail Nikon. I thought my hopes for a stripped down camera with analogue controls but digital film were going to be answered, but "disappointed of Brighton" will be sticking with his D800E because it is a better camera than the DF, sadly - despite being irritated every time he uses this overcomplicated, ponderous machine on which he ignores 90 per cent of the functions.

In fact, as a photographic tool, this is by far the worst of all Nikon's offerings.
 
Depends... How good is your eye site?

Thats the point ...it doesn't matter how good your eye sight is you physically can't see below the f/2.8 or f/2.0 aperture in teh viewfinder so without the split prism your visual in-focus range is wider than the tolerance your lens has at something like f/1.2 so getting the shot out of focus when it looked in focus is highly possible.
 
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