I didn’t know about the no evf part ... where did you see Nikon say that?
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
When I started reading your post, I thought you were trying squash all of our fun. Then I came to your last two paragraphs and said to myself.. "Ah... he's one of us!"
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
This would basically be a digital Contax G2. (With a better finder, of course)
Phil Forrest
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Perhaps I just don’t follow Nikon trends much, but why wouldn’t they make a digital equivalent of the S2 or SP?
Why let Leica have all the digital rangefinder market?
Why let Leica have all the digital rangefinder market?
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
The tech is certainly small enough these days to get at least something digital into an S2 or SP body.
My guess is that the last time Nikon invested a ton of money and time into the amazing, over the top, no expenses spared effort to exactly duplicate these same, (well, S3 not S2) bodies, people in the boardroom remember that they lost their shirts.
That’s probably one reason. I’d likely buy one though, as I’ve said as far back as when they were teasing the Df.
And as to what’s “retro” and why there seem to be varying opinions, those opinions may be tied to how long an individual has been around. The FE2 came out in 1983. That’s like…….yesterday. If you are not yet 50, that may seem retro, but to me that’s a very modern camera with not enough to differentiate it from newer ones to make it interesting. Even if it’s a good camera.
But something along those lines is more likely what we’ll get. Knobs and menus. Neither fish nor fowl.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
I’d heard that before, but couldn’t understand why. Weren’t those cameras all for the Japan-only market and totally sold out upon announcement? Maybe they should’ve made more to satisfy worldwide demand and possibly raised the price a bit to recoup costs? The new S3, SP, and Df seem to reflect a romantic vision Nikon has (and which I admire). Sadly, that can lose money. I see the Df as a digital F4 in so many ways, so I suspect this rumored new camera to be something a bit simpler.
Yes, the FE2 seems the same to me as well. And the FM3a I bought new about 20 years ago? That was like this morning.
To me the point of “retro” isn’t the styling - which so many web articles emphasize - it’s the advantage of a design having one dial or switch per function which is static and easily viewed and adjusted.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
I could be wrong, but my understanding, and I didn't go back and check my references, was that they hardly sold any at the time, they just sat on dealer shelves, which is the reason that 4-5 years ago there were still so many being sold on ebay as "New In the Box". They were expensive when released. It's only now that there is more demand than supply, and they are starting to sell for the kind of money Nikon wanted for them originally, more or less.. And Nikon is not getting any of that.
JeffS7444
Well-known
A follow-up to Nikon's AW1 submersible ILC could be fun, and no one else offers such a thing. If they want to get really nostalgic about it, they can call it "Calypso" in honor of the French camera which became Nikonos. An EVF-less APS-C variant of the Z50 might work very well as such.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
I think you’re right. I see on Cameraquest that they had 8000 new S3’s as a target and were making only 300 per month - but selling each at a loss. Even so, they followed up with the new SP.
So it was a quixotic endeavor, perhaps, but a bad business model.
phofseth
Established
"retro" or not, usability beats fashion if you actually will use the device to take photos.- Size, weight and sensible features that can be disabled allowing for ideosyncrasies of various users is paramount-
IN my experience, the SP viewfinder was not up to the M3 where you could keep both eyes open and have the lightframe suspended in mid air, so one could easily judge what was about to coe into the frame. With the IIIg I liked the collapsible summicron ensuring that the camera would fit in a reasonably sized pocket. Something the later summicrons would not. Also, the compact leitz optics - like their nikon equivalents would fit in other pockets while present day autoeverything monsters need sherpas.
The SLRs could never compete in compactness until the Olympus Pen came. But by that time the reliable,but fiddly Rolllei35s and the unreliable Minoxes had taken over as pocket cameras. Beating the tiny and robust Minoxes with more easily enlargeable and croppable negatives.
With the demise of Kodachrome , Ilford Microphen developer and the advent of digicams, the little Fujis became interesting until the PenF took over with its collapsible plastic mounted and lightweight standard lens (plus excellently corrected 4/3ds optics -until they joined the current (rational) trend for cheaper production of inferior lenses with electronic correction of obvious faults).
The Pen F had an idiotic front "art" knob easily set by mistake to ruin the good olympus Jpg engine . The art knob sensibly had a mechanical security latch, but it would easily be inadvertently dislogded when fishing the camera out of a narrow pocket. Hence, I always had raw files to fall back on EXCEPT that the otherwise excellent Pen F menu sysetem did not protect against the focus point wandering about at random. So I gave the entire system away and settled for the Nikon Z
Although it is as bulky and heavy as my old Leicaflex R8 with no chance of living in a pocket, it does provide reasonable quality snaps with all my ancient lenses + adapters as long as the unruly focus and spot metering-point remains in the center where I normally hope and assume it stays , but it does not and cannot be made immobily fixed in the menu. Luckily disabling battery eating bluetooth and wifi is possible through the menu and cabled connection to my portable computer is still possible, so not all new technology shouold be banished by sensible neoluddism.
The only real retrofeatures I would wish for are elimination of cost-driving wifi and movie features. Even if that entails expensive redesig of key chips .
Nikon might possibly gain more net revenue by selling a hobbled non -autofocus version with a compact manual focus, aperture ring lens at the same price to us quasi illiterate neo-luddites. As long as they retain enlarged focussing through the viewfinder, but eliminate the impractical top hump. They might even make more money by eliminating costly fast processing needed for sequence photography since mr. Muybridge is no longer a potential customer. The unwasshed poor used to waiting days to develop films might even tolerate using only Raw files.
And a final gripe: the exposure adjustment wheel (although practical and in use on previous Nikon cams) is too easily inadvertently moved when fishing the camera out of ones rucksack. When Leitz discovered that the mode switch on the R8 was too easily moved, they introduced a locking knob and renamed the body it to R9 ( while also revising flash beahviour). A similar knob , even if mechanical , might appeal to the knob obsessed japanese designers. (my semi-retro, neo-luddite convictions have nothing aginst knobs, just as long as they serve a sensible purpose and can be disabled or repurposed in the menus)
p.
p.
IN my experience, the SP viewfinder was not up to the M3 where you could keep both eyes open and have the lightframe suspended in mid air, so one could easily judge what was about to coe into the frame. With the IIIg I liked the collapsible summicron ensuring that the camera would fit in a reasonably sized pocket. Something the later summicrons would not. Also, the compact leitz optics - like their nikon equivalents would fit in other pockets while present day autoeverything monsters need sherpas.
The SLRs could never compete in compactness until the Olympus Pen came. But by that time the reliable,but fiddly Rolllei35s and the unreliable Minoxes had taken over as pocket cameras. Beating the tiny and robust Minoxes with more easily enlargeable and croppable negatives.
With the demise of Kodachrome , Ilford Microphen developer and the advent of digicams, the little Fujis became interesting until the PenF took over with its collapsible plastic mounted and lightweight standard lens (plus excellently corrected 4/3ds optics -until they joined the current (rational) trend for cheaper production of inferior lenses with electronic correction of obvious faults).
The Pen F had an idiotic front "art" knob easily set by mistake to ruin the good olympus Jpg engine . The art knob sensibly had a mechanical security latch, but it would easily be inadvertently dislogded when fishing the camera out of a narrow pocket. Hence, I always had raw files to fall back on EXCEPT that the otherwise excellent Pen F menu sysetem did not protect against the focus point wandering about at random. So I gave the entire system away and settled for the Nikon Z
Although it is as bulky and heavy as my old Leicaflex R8 with no chance of living in a pocket, it does provide reasonable quality snaps with all my ancient lenses + adapters as long as the unruly focus and spot metering-point remains in the center where I normally hope and assume it stays , but it does not and cannot be made immobily fixed in the menu. Luckily disabling battery eating bluetooth and wifi is possible through the menu and cabled connection to my portable computer is still possible, so not all new technology shouold be banished by sensible neoluddism.
The only real retrofeatures I would wish for are elimination of cost-driving wifi and movie features. Even if that entails expensive redesig of key chips .
Nikon might possibly gain more net revenue by selling a hobbled non -autofocus version with a compact manual focus, aperture ring lens at the same price to us quasi illiterate neo-luddites. As long as they retain enlarged focussing through the viewfinder, but eliminate the impractical top hump. They might even make more money by eliminating costly fast processing needed for sequence photography since mr. Muybridge is no longer a potential customer. The unwasshed poor used to waiting days to develop films might even tolerate using only Raw files.
And a final gripe: the exposure adjustment wheel (although practical and in use on previous Nikon cams) is too easily inadvertently moved when fishing the camera out of ones rucksack. When Leitz discovered that the mode switch on the R8 was too easily moved, they introduced a locking knob and renamed the body it to R9 ( while also revising flash beahviour). A similar knob , even if mechanical , might appeal to the knob obsessed japanese designers. (my semi-retro, neo-luddite convictions have nothing aginst knobs, just as long as they serve a sensible purpose and can be disabled or repurposed in the menus)
p.
p.
or just a Fujifilm X-Pro.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
A friend of mine owned a camera shop and thought that the reissued S3 would sell immediately. He bought one, it sat there for quite a while, then he sold it at a loss, less than wholesale cost right as his shop closed.
We are a niche community here at RFF and our collective, and individual gear fantasies do not reflect what the average market desires.
Phil Forrest
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
Suspicions confirmed. And, if it was just a problem in his area, and they were selling like hotcakes elsewhere, and hard to get, he could have just sold it on to another dealer at his cost instead of taking the loss. The fact that he didn't indicates they just didn't sell.
Released upon the world before their time, I guess. Cause you sure can't get a "deal" now.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Fuji, anyone?
Fuji, anyone?
Fuji's new X-E4 is certainly an example of what can be crammed into a small body these days. If the rumored Nikon doesn't do it, the X-E4 is for me.
Fuji, anyone?
Fuji's new X-E4 is certainly an example of what can be crammed into a small body these days. If the rumored Nikon doesn't do it, the X-E4 is for me.
I’m not against that but APSC is perfectly fine especially if you use the native Fuji lenses. I use both APSC and full frame and could only see the crop being a problem if you use older lenses. However, the thread you responded to said they wanted AF, so I took that to mean native.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Yup. I completely agree. A digital version of the S2 would be nice, with a mount that is highly adaptable.
farlymac
PF McFarland
This is the closest I could find as to where I got that info.
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/08/01/is-this-the-next-nikon-z-aps-c-based-mirrorless-camera.aspx/
However, somewhere along the line after this post came out there was a quote from a Nikon exec that there would be no EVF for the entry level camera. It's buried in one of the many links on Nikon Rumors as an aside in an article about some other camera.
If you look at the drawings closely in the link above there is no indication of there being a connection for an EVF though I suppose it could be built in to the back of the lens mount upper surround (the front of the accessory shoe). Other than that I have no clue where it could be.
PF
farlymac
PF McFarland
When I started reading your post, I thought you were trying squash all of our fun. Then I came to your last two paragraphs and said to myself.. "Ah... he's one of us!"
Guilty! It's the one reason I've been so hung up on not going fully digital because Nikon just can't come up with something to give me incentive to do so. The closest I can get to right now would be a Z50 body with FZ adapter, but that would only replace my two D300s.
I guess an AF S mount would be out of the question due to the complexity of creating something robust enough to fit in an FX or DX size Z mount body.
PF
JeffS7444
Well-known
Thanks, assuming that we're all talking about the same camera ("Z3"), then rumors suggest entry-level product with single MicroSD card slot. Maybe this could be Nikon's answer to the Canon EOS M200? Besides being one of the lower-priced offerings, M200 is also one of the most compact. Retro-inspired styling could come in the form of a small grip and red stripe reminiscent of the F3 or L35AF.