Nikon RF lenses on the Contax II / IIIa ?

[Luddite Frank]

I'm sure this has come up before, so I beg your indulgence 🙄 ...

So, I have Contax IIIa BD that I'm starting to play with, so far the only lens I have is a Zeiss 5cm f 2 Sonnar.


I also have Dad's Nikon S, with Nikkor SC 5 cm f 1.4, and Nikkor Q 135 f 5(?).

Both Nikkor lenses will lock onto the Contax body very nicely, but I seem to recall that they are not directly compatible ?

Can someone explain the difference between Nikon & Contax RF lenses ?

Thanks ! 😎

Luddite Frank

 

[dexdog]

I know this has been covered before on RFF, but the short story is that the 50 and greater lenses will work OK for many shots, but will not focus accurately wide open or close up due to different amount of travel in the Contax and Nikon helicals. As Brian Sweeney has explained in past posts, the Nikon helical moves ~260degrees from 3ft to infinity. The Contax helical moves ~270degrees from 3 feet to infinity. Also differences in film plane distances between the two cameras.

You can probably use the 50 as long as it it stopped down to f4 or so. Not so sure about the 135 though- may be OK at f 5.6 or f8. Nikon 35mm lenses will be OK on a Contax though, since depth of field will generally cover any focusing errors.

This article from Dante Stella discusses the differences. http://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html

 

[batterytypehah!]

Same story as told by the Head Bartender is here: http://www.cameraquest.com/NRF-Contax.htm

 

[jonmanjiro]

See the chart at the link below. It was copied from the Bessa R2C/S manual and shows what you can expect focusing a 50mm or 85mm S-mount lens on a Contax body and visa versa. The focus error will get progressively worse with longer focal lengths.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1165976&postcount=131

 

[batterytypehah!]

I don't want to take this OT but why would you even bother? If the Nikon kit is dear to you, consider leaving it at home and getting a 135 Sonnar for the Contax. (They go for about $40 in user condition.)

I'm not a camera fondler but at those economics, even I'd be leaving the S2 in the glass case.

Just wanted to inject the $ aspect in case you weren't familiar with current prices. Not trying to second-guess your decision.

 

[dexdog]

unless it is collector grade, or one of the early Nikon S cameras with a serial number starting with an M, I don't think that there is anything particularly precious about an Nikon S. Maybe put it in the display case for sentimental purposes because it belonged to one's father, but other than that, might as as well use it, IMO. Prices generally run $300-400 or so on eBay.

 

[jonmanjiro]

ditto what dexdog and nikonhs webmaster said. if you shop carefully you should be able to pick up a functioning Nikon S with a 50/1.4 for under $300, and a functioning Nikon S2 with 50/1.4 for not much more. way cheaper than a Leica M2 or M3 with 50/1.4.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Thanks for the replies.

The short answer I was looking for is that "Nikon / Contax lenses will physically swap ,but won't focus accurately."

I haven't found any usable Contax RF lenses for less than $120, so before dropping any additional coin, I thought there might be a chance that the Nikon lenses I already have on-hand might work on the Contax.

Thanks for the replies - will start prowling for additional Contax stuff.

 

[raid]

I once had on loan a Nikkor 50mm/1.1 RF lens that eventually turned out not to be correctly shimmed, and when I used it [by mistake] on a Contax, the focusing improved!

 

[Santafecino]

I note for completeness that the Russian copies of Zeiss lenses made for the Kiev will fit the Contax--except the 35mm Jupiter 12 which protrudes too deeply. It would fit a Contax II, though. You can pick up a Jupiter-9 (85mm) or a Jupiter-11 (135mm) for a very low price.

 

[batterytypehah!]

I haven't found any usable Contax RF lenses for less than $120, so before dropping any additional coin, I thought there might be a chance that the Nikon lenses I already have on-hand might work on the Contax.

Thanks for the replies - will start prowling for additional Contax stuff.

You can do much less than $120, on the long lenses, at least. The $40 price I mentioned was a Sonnar 135/4 that sold on ebay last night. The same seller had a Triotar 85/4 that went for $79. My collapsible 5 cm/f2 cost $50, but you have that lens in rigid mount already.

The Helios-103 is great and dirt cheap (under $40 from reputable sources such as Fedka).

The 50/1.5 Sonnar does go higher. Ditto the wides and the 85/2 Sonnar.

If you're after wide angle, I would actually consider a Kiev body + J-12. Zeiss wides that mount on the IIa/IIIa are expensive, and if you get a Nikkor, well, you might as well use it on your S.

 

[batterytypehah!]

I'm not a camera fondler but at those economics, even I'd be leaving the S2 in the glass case.

Clarification: I wasn't referring to the Nikon's dollar value. What I meant is that for just $40, Luddite Frank can replicate the FL line-up in Zeiss glass -- granted, with a slower 50. Seems an easy decision to me, if there's any sentimental value to the Nikon at all.

Also, sorry for misreading S2 where he wrote S.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Nikkors will focus too close when used on the Contax. Nikon made a series of telephoto lenses for the Contax marked with a 'C' on the barrel, not nameplate. The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 is built to the Leica standard of (nominal) 51.6mm. The COntax 5cm lens is a (nominal) 52.4mm. The travel of the Contax is 0.1mm more than the Nikon from 3ft to infinity. Enough to throw things off.

I use a J3, J-9, and J-11 with my Contax II. They are copies of the 5cm f1.5, 8.5cm F2, and 13.5cm F4 lenses pre-war lenses, but are coated.

J-3 wide-open on the Contax II.

J-11 13.5cm F4 on the Contax II, wide-open.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Brian,

Thanks for the pics.... I was toyiing with the idea of picking -up some Jupiters for the Contax... did these lenses perform for you "out of the box" or did you have to tweak them ?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Sorry- just saw this question.

I had to tweak the new-old-stock 1975 J-9 to focus properly with the Contax. I had to increase the shim by 0.5mm. It is spot-on now. The J-11 was perfect, looks like a military issue lens. It's very sharp.

The J-3 is one of my "back-Hacks" for the Contax, made from the left-over parts from a Sonnar to LTM conversion. I shimmed it myself, it used to be an LTM lens.

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

This is interesting! I've read this thread before, and I happened to visit a camera repair shop where the had a super-good looking Nikon S on display, mounted with Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5. I asked them is that really working properly regarding focusing etc. and said of course, they've shot many great pictures with the combo. They were of the mind, that there is no focusing difference between Nikon and Contax. This is an interesting conflict because lots of people disagree and with good reason.

(They are also selling a Contax II with Sonnar in super-beautiful condition and 6 month warranty.. too pretty.. 🙂

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The new Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 is native to S-Mount. You can buy them new, in the box. they are ~$1,100.

The classic Contax Mount Zeiss lenses will not "normally" focus properly on a Nikon S-Mount camera. You can shim the lens to optimize it for close-up and wide-open work, then stop down a little for distance work. The Sonnar focus shift helps in this regard.

SO: If the Sonnar was made in the last couple of years, it will work. It it is a classic Zeiss Contax mount lens, you will have a problem.

I shimmed one Nikon S2 for Contax Mount lenses, and shimmed one Carl Zeiss Opton Sonnar 50/1.5 and a 50/2 for my Nikon S-Mount cameras.

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

To clarify, it was clearly a classic Zeiss Sonnar, uncoated too if I saw correctly.

I don't know, maybe someone has ages ago shimmed the lens and the old guys just don't remember - or they got it already shimmed, who knows..

 

[stong]

Henry Scherer wrote about the differences here:
http://www.zeisscamera.com/articles_cnrfdr.shtml

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Henry is a complete idiot or full of it like a Nine Pound Robin, I'm not sure which. The man does not know what he is talking about.

Nikon Focal Length is nominal 51.6mm, and they are marked "5cm". Zeiss lenses were a nominal 52.4mm, and the Zeiss Jena are marked 5cm and the Zeiss Opton are marked 50mm. The difference in the throw of the focus from 3ft to infinity is 0.1mm. The Nikon helical moves ~260 degrees and the Zeiss helical moves ~270degrees. They have the same pitch. The travel on the Nikon helical is less than that on the Contax because the focal length on the Zeiss lens is longer than the focal length on the Nikon lens.

I modified a Nikon S2 to work with Contax lenses over 5 years ago, setting it up on an 8ft optics bench in my lab.

I have shimmed a pre-war Contax lens for a Nikon, but later converted it to Leica mount. It was the first lens that I converted using a Jupiter-3 focus mount. You have to reposition the Aperture ring, and that requires tapping out new holes for the set screws. The Zeiss Opton lens does not require this last step. The mechanism is different, the optics module is held into the mount with a retaining ring up against a variable stand-off ring rather than being screwed in and held back via shims.