Nikon RF musings...

Last year i purchased a new S3-2000 with 25cv, 35 2.5, 50 1.4 olympic, 85 2 and 105 lenses. I always wanted a Nikon RF since in college. I shot with Leica M's and a frined shot with Nikon S3and SP's back then and I always had a major lust for one. I've actively shot with my Leicas since 1968 and have become so used to them that I didn't know if i could adapt to the Nikon. Let me say that the Nikon is equal quality optically and mechanically to the Leica M's but i just can not adapt to the position of the controls and that annoying focusing wheel thatI would like to remove with a hammer. There are a couple of other things that make me a little nuts and that's the clutter in the VF and the RF patch isn't as good as the Leica. Your eye must be centered or the patch is hard to see. Otherwise, I love the camera and I would probably like the SP better than the S3 because of less cluttered VF and paralax correction in the frames. I think most of my problem is nearly fourty years of Leica conditioning and changing systems is a problem. I plan to keep the Nikon to keep my lust unger check. The camera is fun to use when I don't feel pressure under hard and heavy shooting conditions and the results are stunning. Under pressure I just have to think too much about focus, aperture and all the things that differ from the M's. Who knows, in another fourty years I might learn to like the Nikon better. I have no doubt that I would feel the same way about Leica if i had started with Nikons fourty years ago. Let me also say that my Leicas are not without their annoyances too. I just purchased two new MP's to go with my M2 and M6 and I like the frame lines of the M6 and M2 much better.

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I think I need to make one more comment about the new release of the Olympic 50 1.5 that comes with the S3-2000. I ran a very informal test that i felt was an honest evaluation of my nikkor 1.4 and late tabbed 50 f2 summicron. Without any question in my mind, the Nikkor is a superior lens compared to the Summicron. Some will disagree but in my evaluation the Nikkor suffered from virtually no flare in backlit conditions that rendered the summicron images soft and low contrast with very obvious flare. At the moment I have no plans to sell my summicron but did buy a new summilux asph that I'm delighted with. In my view the Nikkor is about as close to the asph summilux as one can get. I haven't done a side by side test but under real shooting conditions I feel the performance is about equal. Now consider the price of a new asph summilux and consider the price of the Nikon S3-2000 with the new 1.4. I paid $2,295 for the Nikon kit and $2149 for a mint used summilux asph with leitz filter from Tamarkin. Basically you get a new Nikon S3-2000 body for $150 over the price of the lens or for $400 less than the price of a new asph Summilux from B&H @ $2,695.

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Last year i purchased a new S3-2000 with 25cv, 35 2.5, 50 1.4 olympic, 85 2 and 105 lenses. I always wanted a Nikon RF since in college..... I love the camera and I would probably like the SP better than the S3 because of less cluttered VF and paralax correction in the frames
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The SP's viewfinders are different but not less clutterd,as a matter of fact by the time you turn the dial to 13.5 centimeters you see all four Frame lines, 50,85,105 and 135, so it gets pretty cluttered. the wide angle viewfinder is separate and only has frame lines for the 35mm.
Regards,
Kiu
 
> Nikkor is a superior lens compared to the Summicron. Some will disagree

I can speek for Kiu, myself, and Vince. We do not disagree. And we are unbiased. Completely. Right Kiu?

And the SP finder has a "tunnel effect". All of the outer lines stay up, but it is the innermost one that is active. More information, like being able to pre-view what the image would be like "if" you used a wider lens. It's hard to forget to frame with just the inner framelines on an SP. With other cameras, the "user' has to remember which set is active.

But I love the S3. And I am very unbiased. I have 5 Summicrons, all different.
 
I think I'm going to set this aside for a few months and see if my interest in getting Nikon RF gear endures - if it does, I think an S3-2000 is the way to go.

Thanks to all for your input!
 
>>I have no doubt that I would feel the same way about Leica if i had started with Nikons fourty years ago.<<

That pretty much where I am. I got into Nikon RFs when they were considerably cheaper than used Leicas, and I liked the fact that the controls were so complimentary to Fs and F2s. Now, the controls are so second-nature to me that I seldom have to give any thought at all to the camera ... I think of a shutter-speed/aperture combo, and its set practically subconscously.

For several years, when I was learning photography, I shot both a Canon original F1 and a Nikomat with a 50mm Nikkor 1.4. I ended up trading the Canon kit even up for a Nikon FM and immediately realized I was in nirvanna with aperture and focus controls and lens mounts all suddenly turning in the same direction.

Ditto what Brian said about the "tunnel effect" of the SP. I use the 13.5cm lens a lot (in fact, just this evening shooting my 6-year-old's first night of soccer practice) and I consider the SP a really intelligent way of handling telephotos. I get mixed feelings about the wide-angle viewfinder, but as an eyeglasses wearer, I sure like the ease with which it can handle 28mm lenses.
 
The S3 2000 kit is a bit of a miracle the way I look at it. The special edition of the 50/1.4 will not likely ever be available again at todays prices, (if ever). Ditto the S3 body. The new SP is what 3X the price? Will Nikon ever go to this much trouble again? Who knows? - but they are curtailing other film products. You are wanting one at the right time - while there are some around. :)
 
>>The S3 2000 kit is a bit of a miracle the way I look at it. The special edition of the 50/1.4 will not likely ever be available again at todays prices, (if ever). Ditto the S3 body.<<

Today's prices are purely a result of supply-and-demand market economics. The original S3-2000 price was about $4,500, at which point Nikon was taking about a thousand-dollar loss on each unit. Today, at $2,000 to $2,400, the user market has found the price people are willing to pay for the thing, but that's just to move old inventory at a steep loss. Used, the S3-2000 kit won't bring $1,500.

The problem is, not many people would pay collector prices. And the user market has deterimined that its price should be about where it was back in the 1950s, which would have been in the $2,000 to $2,500 range after inflation.

Interestingly, that's how the original cameras were priced back in the day. Very expensive, but still not as expensive as Leica. That's why so few Nikons were made.
 
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The 1964 50mm F1.4 lens sells for more ALONE than the entire s3-2000 kit goes for.

This is what credit cards are meant for!

In the future, anyone really wanting the sharpest 50mm lens possible for their Nikon RF will be hunting for these. Like all those people buying SP-2005's, buy an S3-2000 to go with it to Get The Lens.
 
With the price of the SP-2005 around $6,000-6,200 I don't see this as a bargain but certainly the S3-2000 is. Figure the price of a new leica MP with 35 summilux asph and you're running about the same as the SP. The MP with the 35 summilux asph is a step up from the Nikon in my view. The MP has a fantastic meter and the summilux 35 is truly state of the art with a speed gain over the 35 1.8 Nikkor. If the price dropped to around $4,200 for the SP-2005 kit I think it would be in the ball park then.


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Ken, whenever you can, call Ervin Cupil in Central Camera, in Wabash, and see if he has Nikon RF bodies to show you. He's my, say, "contact" there, and a very nice man too. In fact, if I ever buy a digital body, it'll be from him (gotta keep that store in business!).

Talk to you later! :)
 
Ken Ford said:
I think I'm going to set this aside for a few months and see if my interest in getting Nikon RF gear endures - if it does, I think an S3-2000 is the way to go.

Thanks to all for your input!
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Well, ten months is more than a few, but...

I think I'm going to sell off some gear and start saving for a black S3-2000 kit. This isn't going to happen overnight; however, my Leica kit is largely sorted out with the exception of replacing a few lenses with current Summicrons w-a-y down the road ($$$), so I think I can give this some attention. I need to find a S3 to play with to be sure it's what I really want - I do know I don't want an SP, I've always thought they were butt-ugly.

S3-2000 kit, 35, 105.

Pray for me.
 
If it's any consolation, I know the feeling. Somewhere there is a chrome S3-2000 kit for me but it won't be anytime soon :)

William
 
the sp-2005 is the ultimate rangefinder indulgence. i still remember the one on mr. gandy's table at the camera expo...all alone under glass, in a sea of red velvet.
 
SP-2005 comes with a 35/1.8. I have the original 1950s version. Lovely lens. I use my 28 and 50 a lot more often, but the 35/1.8 is best up close in dim light. I'm always shooting it wide open at 1/15 or 1/8 second at 3 feet minimum focus.
 
I'm hoping a couple people here brake out and buy the 2 Nikon S3 2000 kits I have in the classifies here. That way I can finally totally indulgence and justify opening and using the SP set. If left with a S3 set I'll have to suffer:)

As a 'life-long' Leica user the Nikon RF may not be an ideal match, but there is something about them...

Although the new multi-coated 1.8/35 in the SP set is one of the reasons to have it, I'd have too keep an eye open for the new 'olympic' 1.4/50 as well (I've seen them on their own a couple times). As was said before, one of the main reason to get the S3 2000 is the new 50mm lens.
 
My name is Tom and I am a Nikoholic! Most of my photography has been with Leica's (at least when it comes to rangefinders) but I always was fascinated by Nikon Rf's. Shooting for living in Sweden in the 60's, it was mainly M2's,M3's and MP's and as there was no proper marketing of Nikon RF's, these were rare birds. Occasionally visiting press photographers sported S2/SP's and exotic optics like the 50 1,1 and the 105/2,5. About ten years ago a friend gave me a Nikon S( painted black) and a 35/3,5. This was the start of my current pile of RF's, S, S2's (many), S3's (three), SP's and a lone S4. Lenses range from VC 12/15 in S mounts to 21/25/28 (VC) multiple 35's including the 35/1,8 (old) and one 35/1.8 from a 2005 SP. 35/2,5's and 35/3,5's and of course multiples of 50/1,4 and f2's as most bodies come with a 50 on it. I also have the R2S Bessa with the 50/3,5 Heliar and the 85/105/135. In short probably more than I need, but there is a nice feeling of having choices. Of course, having the S-mount I can also add Contax lenses,21/4,5, 28/8, 35/2,8 pre and post war, and 50/2 and a 50/1,5 Sonnar.
Leica M's are still my main cameras, but there is something special about the Nikon RF- focus is backwards and the longer " throw" on the Nikon focus slows me down a bit and the focus is more precise than on a M. When I load up the Nikons it is for shooting for pleasure and for myself. With the M's it is often checking out Rapidwinders or other accessories that I make. Occasionally it feels like work!
Maybe my Nikons dont get the same amount of film through them as my M's but they dont sit idle. I love the S 24x34 frame. Enough space between the frames that you can write notes.The S2 had one of the best finders for the 50 EVER. So it has a bit clumsy shutter speed diasl and a bit more "clunk" to its shutter. They are reasonablly priced and a great starter for that slippery slope of Nikoholism!
The S3 and S3-2000 are easy to use and though the finder takes a bit to get used too, once you get it it is great. The S3-2000 lens, the 50/1,4 is extremely good, within "spitting" distance of the 50/1,4 Asph. Summilux. The 35/1,8's are as good as the 35/2 Summicron or the Pre-Asph 35/1,4 Summilux. The early one of mine does flare (but so do Summiluxes!) and the the SP 2005's 35/1,8 will hold its own against a Summicron 35. The unsung hero is actually the 35/3,5 - a remarkable lens. I suspect that the combination of the precise focus of the Nikon RF and the rather simple design of the lens makes it a very sharp and smooth lens. So, it is a bit slow but modern thin-emulsion bl/w can handle a bit of a push.
The SP, I have two, one was a gift from a collector " because it is so beaten up that no collector would want it". There is not a single spot on this camera that has not been dented or scratched, but the finder is perfect and the film-advance silky smooth and I dont have to baby it! The other SP, also a gift= as the rangefinder is weak, I had painted black and with a scale focussing 28/8 Tessar or the Biogon 21/4,5 it works fine.
The S4 was assembled by a friend in Japan, it is painted black and even has the titanium curtains from a SP in it. Great camera for my 105/2,5, a lens that is enough reason for buying a Nikon RF alone.
Oh, just to add to this habit, I also have at least 6 Nikon F's, all beaten up but fully functioning. One of my backgrounds is Industrial Design and I have always thought that the F is one of the most incredibly well thought out concepts. You can add meters, motors, finders as you need it and also strip it down to a basic prism-finder/body when you perferred that. It defines "rugged" as a camera and if it acts up, it is easy enough to fix.
Writing about the Nikon RF's has gotten me thinking, maybe February should be Nikon Rf month only for me!
 
I like to pack Nikon RF pairs when going out. An S3 with a 35 on it and the SP with a 50 is a great combo. The price on the S3-2000 with the 50mm/f1.4 is a great buy. The lens is worth 2/3rds of the asking price. The 1964 version of the lens goes for more than the S3-2000 kit. The new lens is multicoated and is a great performer. You should get one of these kits fast, some great deals can be had as collectors raise money for an SP-2005.
 
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