Nikon S3 vs. Hasse X-pan

H.a.d

Newbie
Local time
1:01 PM
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
8
I want to buy a rangefinder and i thought about x-pan because it's a panoramic camera too but after i read couple of reviews of Nikon S3 and it's sounds as the Best🙂
I don't know which one to take because the only rangefinder that i had was Olympus 35 RC.

Help me Please.....maybe you'll tell me to take something els.




THX
 
Hi There and
WELCOME

Really tough question you are asking....like trying to compare apples and oranges.
The Nikon S3 lacks a lightmeter and is for purists...either you use a hand-held meter or estimate the exposure settings.
The X-pan is now discontinued(correct me if I am wrong) but both models are available as "New old stock".
The advantage of buying the Nikon S3 2000 is that you get the super sharp Nikkor 50mm reissue as part of the kit in addition to a case and the hood.

Hope this helps,
Kiu
 
Welcome! I have just one comment to add to Kiu's good advice: The lenses for the Xpan are slow (f4) whereas the Nikon has lenses as fast as f/2 and f/1.5. In practice, this means that the S3 is really an available light camera and can be used hand-held in situations where the XPan often requires a tripod. They are really very different cameras and you should think carefully about the kind of pictures you like to take before making your purchase. Good Luck! and let us know how it turns out.
 
Welcome. Both are great cameras for very different reasons. Which one is right for you depends upon what you want to shot, how you want to print and how deep your pockets are.

The XPan is a wonderful panoramic camera with some very great lenses. While as Ben said, the lenses are somewhat slow, so existing darkness is a stretch. Not impossible, but you will be carrying a tripod. Everything you shoot with the XPan is a panoramic, horizontal or vertical, at the end of the day, a panoramic. While the camera is made by Fuji and they (IMHO) have a good reputation for well made cameras, long term, I am not sure how will be able to fix or find parts for the XPan. I think lenses at the wide and telephoto ranges are quite expensive. Again, do you need more than one lens all depends upon your style of shooting. I think it would be fun to force myself to think panoramic as a format, very creative but somewhat limiting from time to time. But perhaps that is part of the learning process.

IHMO, the S3 is a world class camera. Built in frame lines for 35/50/105, some of Nikons best lenses is a great place to start. I have an S2 and long for either an S3 or an SP. If I am every luck enough to get one, my kit would be a CV 15/4.5 (in F mount with an adapter for Nikon S mount), Nikkor 35/1.8 and a Nikkor 105/2.5. For my S2, I have a CV 25/4 (WORLD CLASS LENS, you can find a used one at www.cameraquest.com for a very reasonable price, if you decided on the S3, jump on it, it’s a great lens), a Nikkor 50/1.4 Chrome Nikkor and a 105/2.5 Nikkor. I also have a 35/2.8 Russian and a 135/3.5 black Nikkor that do not get much use. CV lenses are great and if you can not find a very good Nikkor in your budget, I would say go CV. Not having a built in meter is a bit of a pain, but for some people, slowing down to think about what you are shooting is not a bad idea.

There are three reasons I use a Leica M6 as my main camera and not a Nikon SP or S3. First is lens selection. There is a much wider range of lenses available for the M mount at a wide range of both price and quality. Second is the lack of availability of a rapidwinder for the Nikon rangefinder. Rumor has it that Tom A has a few built, so if I had very deep pockets I think I could get one, but my pockets are being emptied for my family these days. IMHO, much more important. The third, and least important is the is the built in meter. While I am very comfortable with an external meter, I am lazy in my old age. I adjust my exposure as I am bringing the camera up to my eye and am pretty close most of the time so if I had to go without a built-in meter, I could. I did for several year with my M4-P and was quite happy.

I think the panoramic format costs more to process and print. This is something I think you need to consider as you make the decision. While film will be getting somewhat more expensive, are you able to process and print your panoramic film?

As you know by now, I would say go with the S3. If you can get the new 50mm Nikkor, it is one of the best 50/1.4 ever made by anyone.

Again, welcome, please keep asking questions and let us know what way you go. Also, if you do not pick the S3, please let me know where she is, I might take the plunge.

B2 (;->
 
The XPan/TX2 and the S3 2000 are very different systems.
I bought the S32000 when the Black paint versions came out in 2002/3 and shot with it for a few years since, and although i enjoyed using it, it did need a repair on the frame advance gearing (which were two soft) this surprised me and the sides of the metal top plate dented very easily. To be honest i don't think this commemorative model was as made as well as the original versions it was based on. My Nikon F3p was built like a tank! Perhaps i was just unlucky...

I may be the only one who thinks this but i found the 50/1.4 too contrasty for what i am shooting and at 1.4 the OOF areas too harsh compared to the Lecia pre ASPH 50/1.4. That said the 3.5/2.5 and 10.5/2.5 lenses performed superbly.
I tried very hard to work with both the Nikon and Leica RF systems but in the end last year i traded the S3 2000 towards a BP MP which has a much simplier and more contrasty viewfinder (crucial for me in poor light) You get 3 brightline frames etched in the glass in the S3 2000 viewfinder (35/50/105) and this can become distracting.
I've now just purchased the new/old stock Fuji TX2 (same as Xpan II) to use alongside the Lecia M's. It's not a F1.4 but i can work with F4 and its pano option.
 
I may be the only one who thinks this but i found the 50/1.4 too contrasty for what i am shooting and at 1.4 the OOF areas too harsh
Oh come on Simon, Too contrasty??? What film do you use?? Hi contrast?

tried very hard to work with both the Nikon and Leica RF systems
What a losing battle...No one has won!!


To be honest i don't think this commemorative model was as made as well as the original versions it was based on. My Nikon F3p was built like a tank!

To be honest,You can't compare the F3 to any of the rangefinders....Rangefinder is a delicate story!!

Kiu
 
Last edited:
Film was Tri-X, Kiu. You can rave all you want about the 50/1.4 and the S3 2000 we all have different needs and for me the 50/1.4 wasn't subtle enough and the body not robust enough. My interest is in making photographs with tools that deliver in difficult conditions.
But like i said perhaps i'm the only one who thinks this about this particular model and lens. I really couldn't care less Kiu if you believe me or not.
 
Thank you all for replying me🙂
I'm myself a newspaper photographer,and i use Nikon d2H and couple of Nikon Lenses.
Ones i was using Nikon F100 (film body) and know i really what to shoot Film.
I have Oly 35RC but it's not the camera that i want to use because the results that i get not what I'm looking for. And i thought myself that it will be more interesting to buy myself and rangefinder and not a slr-because if I'll buy a SLR i would need to buy lot of different glass cos i use Nikon 17-55 f/2.8 DX lens and the Nikon 10.5 mm that wont fit Nikon film camera.
I want to buy a camera with on glass maximums 2. But i don't want to buy a lot off new staff to the camera.
Hasse X-pan is a great camera as i understood and i thought it will "open my new horizontals" of photography. And i know that I'll steak only with on glass the Hasse 45mm f/4 lens. I need the camera for street photo and portraits. And the panaramic view will help me too make may shoots more interesting.
Nikon S3 i thought of taking only because it a NIKON🙂 with F/1.4 lens.
I know that the Hasse is manual focus camera.can you tell me how does it focus? As an Rangefinder with two small frames on the screen that when they become on that mean the camera is in focus!?

***Yesterday i found in one second hand shop Nikon 50 f/1.2 MF in good shape. and i thought maybe to buy F3 and this lens and not kill my self of thinking about the Xpan that I very very very very want to BUY.

i have 2 stupid question about the X-pan:
1)How close the minimum focus range? 20 cm 30cm??
2)How do i focus !? does the camera have focusing points inside the viewfinder of it have two small frames inside the become one when the image in focus?

Thank you all
 
Both these systems are excellent. As already explained by others, they are rather different.
If you choose a regular 35mm RF rather than panoramic format, you also have several other choices, at similar or lower prices, both for bodies and lenses, both new or used:
Highest prices and "quality": Leica. Older bodies (eg M3) can be had for a few hundred dollars. Recent used bodies range from about $1K (M6) to over $2K (M7, MP), depending on condition. New M7 or MP over $3K.
Mid-range prices and Very good quality: Zeiss Ikon, Konica (discontinued).
Lower prices but still decent quality: Cosina Voigtlander.
All these are M-mount or LTM bodies. You can use LTM lenses on M-mount bodies with a simple adapter. The reverse doesn't work. There is a Huge range of lenses available for these cameras. Among new lenses the most expensive, again, are Leica, which are truly excellent. Also Very good are Zeiss and Cosina Voigtlander. CV lenses are far cheaper than the others and all I have tried perform extremely well. Just to add to your burden of choice!
 
I would love to buy a RF for everyday photo,a miss b/w film.
The Xpan is lovely for me because it half automatic. I don't want to buy fully manual camera. I need a aperture proficients camera. suggest me something easel maybe.
 
H.A.D:

Simon is correct about the Nikkor 1.4 RF (current 2000 version). For nearly forty years I've used a 50 summicron and M leicas and found my new 50 nikkor on the S3 2000 to be much contrastier than my summicron (late tabbed). The summicron has much more flare in backlit conditions and the image is softer in contrast in normal shooting conditions. Personally I like the higher contrast but this is not for everyone. I rarely use the S3 because of years of Leica M use and find it difficult to get used to. It's a fine camera and performs well but it just can't be my primary camera.

I might suggest the new Zeiss Ikon. I have primarily used Leica M's and just purchased a new ZI. I've fallen in love with it for daily use. It certainly will not replace my M's but will suplement they quite well. Since getting it a month ago i've probably shot thirty rolls through it and have not taken if off AUTO. Exposures are on the money and the vf / rf is the best I've seen. It has a longer base, brighter vf. better frame lines and is what I would call a HP high eye point finder. Oh yes it's lighter due to a body of magnesium. I have no fears of durability and feel it will hold up to heavy pro use. Take a look at it and see if it fits your style and needs. Some people say you get what you pay for but i say different. As much as I like Leica I feel it's way over priced. Many other cameras like Nikon last just as long and are just as durable at less money for more features. The Leica glass is great but they have nothing on Zeiss or even CV. Of all the glass I've owned the only real issues I've had with any lense has been leica lenses. Leica cut too many corners in the 80's and 90's in construction. I've had two lenses, 50 tabbed summicron and v4 summicron 35, develope focusing mount problems. Also my 90 apo asph has had focusing mount issues. No other lenses other than these leica lenses have had any problems not even my first generation 60's nikkors. There's just too much myth and hype around some brands and some lenses.The ZI costs about half that of the M7 and in my view is a more desirable camera because of the VF / RF.
 
Last edited:
Simon Larby said:
Kiu - it would be really good to see some of your images online - i've searched here and googled but not found anything?

Sorry Simon, I don't share my images...Its a personal thing!
Now, if you want to see some crude images of equipment, check here:

http://www.msnusers.com/NHSPictureforum

I am sorry, the site is erratic(keep clicking the refresh button)....probably too much traffic or a hacker!!

Regards.

Kiu
 
Last edited:
H.a.d.

While it is not automatic, I would recommend that you look at the Bessa L and a CV 25/4. The L has LEDs for exposure adjustment on the upper back of the body so you can adjust exposure as you bring the camera to your eye. The L has no viewfinder so it’s very light weight and the finder for the 25 is great.

I love the combination as a street shooter as it is low cost, low weight and small. If you want an M mount body, the next step up is a T. It has a built in RF but no viewfinder. The LEDs in the same place as the L, but it weighs a bit more.

There are no Auto-Aperture RF bodies in the M mount world that I know of. Most are Aperture Preferred and Automatic Shutters. CV has the low end (www.cameraquest.com), ZI the upper to middle tier (www.popflash.com) and Leica the high end (M7). Each has its benefits and place, I own several Leicas and Bessa bodies and use most of my lens interchangeably between them. The Bessas that I mentioned before are CV bodies.

I find the quality of the build on my Nikon S2 to be between my Bessas and Leicas (much closer to the Leicas). That is not to say that my Bessas are toys. You might look at any of the automatic Bessas as a low cost starting point for a body. I think you will find new CV lenses almost as good as current Leica or ZI glass at a much lower cost.

Start with the L and a 25/4, this coming spring when the Bessa 4A comes out, go for that and get an adapter for the 25/4. IMHO, the 4A will be the best street camera for the buck anywhere. Its viewfinder handles 21mms without any external finders!

B2 (;->
 
That's a shame Kiu with all your postings it would have been interesting to see the images you make and how you arrive at your conclusions about how specific equipment performs.
 
I am not much of a Photographer and I will never achieve the level a pro like you enjoys although I have taken more than 30,000 photos in my life.
I am sorry I posted in a way that offended you, I was just yapping on-line!!
My love of Nikon is well described here:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18151
and it's hardly logical!

I do a lotta research though, Here is a comparison of the two lenses that you don't like:
http://www.imagere.com/edsarticles/fast50shootout.htm

The Nikkor of 1964 design did give the Aspherical Leica 1.4 a run for the money and the Leica is contrastier....I never thought too much contrast could be a shortcoming but in the 21st century it happens.

I do believe you Simon and believe me, You can't compare a Nikon F2/F3/F4 with the rangefinders in terms of built...Rangefinders are just too delicate, bang them hard enough and the alignment goes off.

I do think the X-pan is an interesting tool and even posted a review but the question posed does indicate a confused view!
How can one narrow their choice between these two cameras? X-ray is right he is better off with a ZI.

Regards,

Kiu
 
No worries Kiu no offence taken 🙂

That's an interesting link Kiu and for me displays the Nikkor's harsher OOF areas at 1.4
I was comparing the pre ASPH when i was talking before (the 43mm version ) i'm getting the ASPH version
and if i can afford too, i'll keep both the ASPH and the Pre ASPH.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Simon Larby said:
No worries Kiu no offence taken 🙂

That's an interesting link Kiu and for me displays the Nikkor's harsher OOF areas at 1.4
I was comparing the pre ASPH when i was talking before,,,,
I know you were, I just thought too much contrast bothered you!
You seem to be doing a lotta images outside and you're happy with F4 or higher. How come OOF areas @1.4 bother you??
May be try 4.0??!! You'll probably get the OOF look you want....It'll cost you a lot less though, including a camera/hood/case!!!! Thats what S3 2000s are going for, under $2000

Just a thought,

Kiu
 
NIKON KIU said:
You seem to be doing a lotta images outside and you're happy with F4 or higher. How come OOF areas @1.4 bother you??
Kiu

Err... no Kiu i usually shoot 1.4 -2 and my recent work is mainly interiors
maybe you've been looking at my landscape 120 work.........and right now with current work i need 1.4 with the 0.7 not 0.9 focussing range option

NIKON KIU said:
May be try 4.0??!! You'll probably get the OOF look you want....It'll cost you a lot less though, including a camera/hood/case!!!! Thats what S3 2000s are going for, under $2000

Just a thought,

I had one Kiu and sold it i mentioned this in my first post in the thread! 🙂
 
Back
Top Bottom