Nikon SP and Scratched Negative

[Steve_Pfost]

I spent two rolls through my Nikon SP. I've begun to feel resistance in the film advance lever when coming to the end of the roll, say around 28 or so of 36. I processed those two rolls and realized fine scratches on the end frames. I was curious if anyone has ever had this happened to them and what to do to prevent it. I'm stumped. Occasionally I'll roll the reel in the camera at the start of a roll to make sure the rewind moves, just so I make sure the film advance caught. Could it be that the film is too tightly wound and is giving resistance, hence scratching across the plane? I never really thought that may cause any issues. Also, upon inspection of the negatives it seems as though the scratches are NOT on the emulsion side.

 

[farlymac]

First, more information is needed.

1: Are you using preloaded film, or reloaded canisters, or Nikon cassettes?

2: Are you processing your own film?

3: How many frames at the start of the roll do you sacrifice before taking exposures?

PF

 

[Steve_Pfost]

I’m using preloaded Ilford hp5, self processing, and off the top of my head maybe five frames? Whatever it takes to get the counter to 1. What boggles me is it seems that the advance lever is hard to pull as if the film is resisting. I can’t recall having this problem in the past. I don’t use my SP as often as other cameras so I’m going off memory. I also don’t ever remember having scratches like this previously. Again, it’s only on the last 8 or so frames right in and about where I was getting resistance. I’ve checked the inside of the camera and it looks pretty clean, I even blew it out with my film blower.

 

[Highway 61]

Constant mechanical extra resistance of the film winding action (for instance due to a too stiff rewind shaft unit) would have you end up with torn sprocket holes and unwanted multiple exposures, not scratches. Just happened to me with a vintage Contax. Yet the SP rewind unit has a cardan shaft and it's usually anything but stiff so I think that we can eliminate this possibility.

Extra resistance of the film winding action at the end of the film, plus scratches on the film base side, tells that something odd is happening in the film chamber on the take-up spool side. You can check the film pressure plate. Wouldn't have it come unhooked on this side ?

Could also be that, when you loaded the camera, the first inches of the film made a bump over the take-up spool. So when you came to the end of the film, the footage of film enrolled around the take-up spool was too thick and rubbed against the camera back inner surface. Hence the resistance and the scratches. Ilford HP5+ has quite a thick base, so if not tightly enrolled at the beginning of the film, it is likely to rub against the camera back at the end of the film. The SP has a compact film chamber.

When you load your film, pay attention to insert the film leader deep enough and tight inside the take-up spool slot, and make sure that there will be no bump there before you put the camera back, close it, and wind until the film counter sets on 0.

 

[Erik van Straten]

On my S2 I get scratches on the film backs right over the perforation when I use (Kodak) film in their standard cassettes. Recently I took the film - wound on their spools - out of the cassette and put it in an original Nikon cassette before loading the camera. Not the tiniest scratch is now seen on their backs when the film is exposed. Somehow the modern preloaded commercial cassettes do not fit well in my camera anymore.


Erik.

 

[Highway 61]

I have two S2, an S3, and an SP (all classic bodies from the 1950's). None of them scratched my negatives ever, whatever the brand and kind of film having been through them, always using their commercial preloaded cassettes (from memory : Agfa APX 100, Fomapan 100, Kodak Plus-X, Kodak Tri-X, Kodak T-Max 100 and 400, Ilford FP4+, Ilford HP5+, Ilford PAN 100, Ilford PAN 400, Fuji Neopan 1600 and 400, Fuji Reala, Fuji Superia 100 and 400, Fuji Provia 100F).

 

[Erik van Straten]

I could not find any defect or change on my camera, so it must be the new film cassettes that have changed.


Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Here you can see the scratches. It is strange that when I use a Nikon cassette there are no scratches at all.


Erik.

 

[Steve_Pfost]

Well, it could be that I loaded it incorrectly, (i.e. there was slack in the film on the spool) I had a little bit of trouble loading these two rolls the spool wouldn't catch, or it seemed to spin and not allow the film to travel across the plane even though the leader was in the slot. I don't typically have issues with loading the Nikon's. Interestingly enough, however, it is the first time I used ilford cassettes in the SP so maybe it does have to do with something along those lines.

Sometimes it's hard to explain certain issues on here so my apologies for any confusing descriptions of my problem.

 

[farlymac]

It wasn't a confusing explanation, Steve, just not enough information for anyone to assess what the issue might be. When doing any troubleshooting one needs to identify all the parameters that go into the issue, whether you have a problem with your camera or your plumbing. Like in Erik's problem, he identified that it only happened with one brand of film, and gave photographic evidence of the issue (which might not be possible all the time). What's probably happening there is the new Kodak canisters are pinched too much on the ends of the film exit, and there isn't much he can do about it except alert Kodak to the issue.

The fact you bang off five frames before starting counting exposures will give you the feeling of tightness at the end of the roll like that because you are running out of film faster than what the camera is indicating. I usually determine that the film is on the spool good, give it one wind, close the back and make one more wind, reset the counter and start shooting. Yeah, sometimes I have a half frame at the start on some cameras so if I'm unsure I'll take two exposures of the same subject just in case. (I don't know, does the SP have auto reset on the counter?)

You don't need to tighten the film in the canister, just lightly do a rewind until resistance is felt, then watch on the next wind or two to see if the indicator is spinning.

As noted in other posts, Ilford is a thicker based film, so winding issues are not uncommon in some cameras. The back scratching though could be exclusive to the Nikons though, as I've never experienced that before, at least not that I've noticed on mine.

PF

 

[Steve_Pfost]

I'm going to say I fouled up in loading somehow. Which is odd because I've never had this issue before. I've run various films through this camera, Tri-x - Fomapan, and again, can't recall having this issue. I'm going to pay more attention to loading this and see. Now, on further thought I use my Nikon F with Ilford HP5 plus and haven't received any scratches and can't recall any resistance. The bodies are the same are they not? Maybe I was just in a rush and loaded incorrectly. I will load some today and let you know an outcome.

 

[Steve_Pfost]

[/url]Nikon SP film loading by Steven Pfost, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]Nikon SP film loading by Steven Pfost, on Flickr[/IMG]

Nikon SP film loading by Steven Pfost, on Flickr

 

[Steve_Pfost]

Everything looks as it should, yes?

 

[santino]

There is not much you could do wrong. The film is loaded properly and the pressure plate isn‘t damaged.

 

[Steve_Pfost]

Would unwinding the cassette a bit inside the camera have any affect on the images, frame spacing and what not? I ask this because I just used the camera and began to feel resistance around from 20, I unwound the cassette a bit (and by a bit I mean like maybe half a turn) and the next two frames advanced flawlessly. I left a few with resistance and will process the roll shortly.

 

[Highway 61]

That kind of resistance isn't unusual and yes you can free it up by turning the rewind crank counterclockwise a little bit ; it is always wise to wind more gently once you come to the last third of the total film length. Yet, as written above, if you're too wild for bypassing that common resistance which can happen after frame #20 or so, you may see some (slight to visible) damages at the film sprocket holes when you look at the developed negative strips. No way can this make scratches appear on the film base side...

Those Nikon cameras are the most immune to frame spacing problems, so no risk at all re. that.

Everything's OK on the photos you displayed above. 🙂

 

[Steve_Pfost]

Okay, so, I processed a roll from today where I unwound the cassette towards the end. It seems as though that may have worked, the lines are gone to nearly nonexistent. There were a few frames where I felt resistance and shot anyway to see the difference, on those the lines are faint. Mind boggling to me as I went through my old negs from the camera and I never had this issue with Tri-X. Maybe the ilford cassettes are wound too tightly? I even ran a micro fiber cloth through the camera and blew it out again with my film blower. I can't see where this lines could even come from. below is a photo featuring the scratches across the middle of the frame.

[/url]200520 (38) by Steven Pfost, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[farlymac]

Couldn't see them until I looked on Flickr, Steven. The only thing I can think of for you to check is to run a fingernail along the leading and trailing edges of the pressure plate to see if you can feel any imperfections.


PF