Ranchu
Veteran
Then all we can really say is that people have different experiences when doing this.
No meter, no big deal
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ptpdprinter
Veteran
If you feel more creative not using a meter, then hopefully that creativity will be reflected in the resulting images.
Ranchu
Veteran
That's a non sequitur.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Non sequitur?
Ranchu
Veteran
It's an inconclusive statement that doesn't advance the discussion. It's impossible to determine whether a group of pictures 'would have been better' had a person used a meter or not.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
No, it isn't. It's about understanding the light you're using to make your photograph. That you don't understand this shows you have a lot to think about still.
Anybody can look at a card with a sunshine on it, look at the sky with the sun shining, and use the settings the card tells them to use. That's not an understanding of light, it's simply following directions.
And in any event, even if that is all they're doing, they're still involving themselves in the creative process more deeply than one setting their camera to automatic exposure and not paying attention at all.
I think you're getting caught up in semantics, re-read the first post. It does not state that you will become more creative for not using a meter. It says you will become more involved in the creative process. There's a difference.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
As I see it the creative process involves the subject, framing, composition, aperture and whatever I chose to be in exact focus. The rest of it is mechanical; even when I over-ride the meter, as I often do.
Some would add the film in use to the list but I try to use the same 2 or 3 films all the time and so made that choice a long time ago; as I type the film makers are trying to undermine me but that's life.
Regards,David
As I see it the creative process involves the subject, framing, composition, aperture and whatever I chose to be in exact focus. The rest of it is mechanical; even when I over-ride the meter, as I often do.
Some would add the film in use to the list but I try to use the same 2 or 3 films all the time and so made that choice a long time ago; as I type the film makers are trying to undermine me but that's life.
Regards,David
jamin-b
Well-known
My two cents on this is that some musicians have perfect pitch and others don't, but neither is inherently a better musician... I personally always prefer having a meter handy in the camera or attached. it's a tool so you need to use it and make judgements, but for most circumstances a good camera meter gets it right for BW or C41 in my humble experience. I also live in a place that it is often intensely sunny, and am surprised how often my camera meter indicates (correctly) that applying the Sunny 16 rule would be the wrong exposure by up to two stops...
Axel
singleshooter
This exactly is what I recovered years ago. Its not the question of using a meter or not. It is the experience you get when you do it.
The process led me deeper in my personal understanding of the influence of light in photography.
brbo
Well-known
Some guys have it soooo easy.
I can expose my bw, slide or c-41, 35mm, MF or LF without a meter and it hasn't helped me a bit in being more creative...
(Maybe if I learned to scale focus more accurately than a rangefinder can?!)
I can expose my bw, slide or c-41, 35mm, MF or LF without a meter and it hasn't helped me a bit in being more creative...
(Maybe if I learned to scale focus more accurately than a rangefinder can?!)
SebastienMark
Member
SebastienMark
Member
🙂
Some people believe - only if they had the best of best (camera) creativity will automatically follow.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Using a light meter as a tool is quite different than setting your camera to automatic exposure and not paying any attention at all. As Ranchu would say, that's a non sequitur.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I attended a photography group meeting a while back and one of the members was presenting his work. He went on about how he had a BFA in photography and had been photographing so long he didn't even need to use a meter. It was pretty obvious that his images would have been better had he used a meter.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
And vice versa.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Every choice you make that affects the outcome is part of the process. If you're making a judgement about the lighting, and a decision on how to use it to provide the effect you want, that's as much a part of the process as framing. Your judgement will produce an effect.
Something being mechanical would have to be something beyond your control and inherent in the machine.
No it isn't. You might argue that it's a false dichotomy, in the context of your argument. But it's not a non-sequitur, my statement is still true in and of itself. In any event you're still deliberately misinterpreting the original post.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
I see it as the difference between "making a picture" and "taking a picture". I love making a picture because I love the process:
-Deciding what film I want to use (usually between Tri-X and Double-XX these days)
-Finding an interesting subject
-Studying the light and how I want to use the light to illustrate the subject
-Deciding what focal length lens to use (from my bag of primes)
-Deciding the exposure of the different parts of the subject/scene and how I want to balance that exposure
-Deciding the aperture and shutter speed to set that exposure
-Interacting with the subject (if alive) and framing what I'd like to show of the subject
-Making the exposure
-Removing the film from the camera and loading into SS tank
-Deciding what developer will give me the qualities I'm looking for in the negative
-The whole processing "process" with the film
-Inspecting the negatives as they dry and afterwards
-Cutting the negatives and grouping them on the scanner trays
-Calibrating the scanner and previewing the negs
-Deciding focus point and exposure for each negative scan
-Scanning the negs
-Bringing them into Photoshop (from this point on, it's the same as taking a picture, i.e. shooting digital).
For work, as everyone wants everything yesterday, I shoot digital and take pictures. But when I'm doing photography for myself, I try to focus on making pictures as described above.
Best,
-Tim
-Deciding what film I want to use (usually between Tri-X and Double-XX these days)
-Finding an interesting subject
-Studying the light and how I want to use the light to illustrate the subject
-Deciding what focal length lens to use (from my bag of primes)
-Deciding the exposure of the different parts of the subject/scene and how I want to balance that exposure
-Deciding the aperture and shutter speed to set that exposure
-Interacting with the subject (if alive) and framing what I'd like to show of the subject
-Making the exposure
-Removing the film from the camera and loading into SS tank
-Deciding what developer will give me the qualities I'm looking for in the negative
-The whole processing "process" with the film
-Inspecting the negatives as they dry and afterwards
-Cutting the negatives and grouping them on the scanner trays
-Calibrating the scanner and previewing the negs
-Deciding focus point and exposure for each negative scan
-Scanning the negs
-Bringing them into Photoshop (from this point on, it's the same as taking a picture, i.e. shooting digital).
For work, as everyone wants everything yesterday, I shoot digital and take pictures. But when I'm doing photography for myself, I try to focus on making pictures as described above.
Best,
-Tim
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Oh boy. Digital is taking; film is making. I should have referenced Goethe's young Werther with a film camera. Sorry for the oversight.
jsrockit
Moderator
Stick around longer... this is only the tip of the iceberg.
Ranchu
Veteran
Maybe not. I understand what you mean, but it's unprovable whether they would be, (and really, to whom?) and so a dead end as far as reaching any conclusion about predicting what will happen in any given situation. I'm trying to prevent us debating the probability, which seems irrelevant to me as every case will be different because there's an infinite amount of possible pictures. Seems pointless.
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