No more curly fries! - Help stop 35mm negatives curling before you scan

[Paolo Bonello]

( I wasn't exactly sure where to post this. Moderator - please move it if it is in the wrong section)

Just a bit of help needed. This topic has been touched on in a few threads but I'd ike to try and get all the collective knowledge related to stopping the dreaded Curly Fry negatives or perhaps with the help of people here, come up with a new solution to the problem.

Scanning with my V700 using the negative strip holders.

So I've started processing my own film and a few rolls into it things seem to be working fine but I just air dry them inside the house and the temps are a little cool at the moment. Anyhow, I cut the strips once they're dry or the following day but the last few strips are quite hard to handle, curling up on me as I try to place them in the scanner and scan flat negatives.

Questions:
Does the heated drying cabinets they use in labs eliminate curling?

Is there any effective way to eliminate the curling towards the emulsion side for a do-it-yourselfer at home without spending big dollars?

It seems to curl up in two planes and it is the plane across the film that really bothers me cause it means the film is not flat in the holders and my scanning is somewhat compromised. Obviously the longitudinal curling is also annoying.

Any ideas or homegrown techniques out there that you'd like to share?

Please do!

 

[bob338]

i usually wait for the film to dry then roll it backwards and put it into a film can for a day. they usually come out flat.

 

[urs0polar]

Hi Paolo

A few things come to mind:

1. Go to betterscanning and look there for a better holder that will also be adjustable so you can focus better and get a sharper scan:

http://www.betterscanning.com/

2. Failing that, see if you can get some AN glass and some clear glass to sandwich the glass between when you are scanning from the FocalPoint guy:

http://www.fpointinc.com/glass.htm

go into his online store and find your scanner, etc.

3. Get some textbooks, or better, large heavy photo coffee table books (Helmut Newton's Sumo works great for this heh) and sandwich the negatives between them overnight (in a contact sheet plastic page thing to protect them). I used to set them on the cable box with a book on top for an hour or so, watch some TV, and the light heat flattens them right out. Don't know if adding heat is bad for the film though.

4. Change your brand of film. Fuji Acros and Neopan can curl like crazy sometimes, as can Efke 25. Kodak curls less for me. Of course, this is kind of a BS option because you shouldn't let Epson of all companies determine which film you buy because it happens to lay flatter in their cost effective but very annoying V700 (I have one, too).

5. Get a Nikon scanner. I have the 9000 ED, and the 35mm film holder flattens the film for you, so it scans quite flat without glass. For medium format, supplement the Nikon filmholder with some AN glass from focalpoint on top and you just saved yourself spending hundreds on the nikon glass holder.

Hope this helps!

 

[Paolo Bonello]

That sounds pretty good Bob338. does it cause any scratching? I was thinking about winding them onto developing tank spools ( emulsion side out) and leaving for a day or two inside a sandwich bag to stop dust getting onto it.

 

[Paolo Bonello]

Urs0polar thanks. A wealth of information in your post that I can go through. Sounds like you had given the topic a thorough investigation at some point.
Cheers. Paolo

 

[dyao]

Bob's trick does it. Shouldn't cause scratching unless you get some sand/grit trapped in between the film as you're curling.

From what I've learned and my experience seems to bear this out, curling happens because the emulsion side dries too fast and contracts inward, causing the film to bow around the emulsion. High humidity helps because the film dries slower and more evenly. High temps and low humidity exacerbate film curl, in my experience. I don't know how film labs get their negatives so flat.

 

[ruby.monkey]

I use Rollei Retro 80S and 400S for black and white. Film curling is something that happens to other people.

 

[bob338]

That sounds pretty good Bob338. does it cause any scratching? I was thinking about winding them onto developing tank spools ( emulsion side out) and leaving for a day or two inside a sandwich bag to stop dust getting onto it.

i haven't had any issues with scratching, but i'm not all that picky.
i wouldn't use a developing reel for this trick, seems like it would take days. i think rolling the film into a film can works because you're rolling it up pretty tightly compared to being on a reel. any more than a day, though, and you risk having to uncurl it the other way.

 

[mfogiel]

Apart from the above advice, I could add, that drying the film in an unheated, and rather humid environment helps - so if you dry it in the bathroom, make sure the heating is off. You can also take a shower before hanging the film to increase the humidity. The drying will take longer, but it should not curl.

 

[thegman]

I second the suggestion to get some ANR glass, I sometimes use some unusual films which seem to curl a lot worse than Kodak/Fujifilm stuff. The ANR glass in the BetterScanning holder works great, almost better than flat film, as the curl "pins" the film against the glass. Not sure if it's any better or not, but sometimes it seems easier *with* the curl.

The BetterScanning/ANR glass combo was the best thing I ever bought for scanning, apart from the V700 itself.

 

[bhop73]

Kodak film is the worst for me for curling. I bought some better scanning glass, but sometimes the glass is still not heavy enough to push the film curl down, so the ghetto way i've overcome it is by stacking 4 quarters taped together on the edges of the better scanning glass so that the scanner lid presses down on them, which in turn presses the negatives flat. (i'm sure you could use something else of simliar thickness, but I had a pile of quarters handy from my laundry quarter stash)

 

[ruby.monkey]

Kodak film is the worst for me for curling. I bought some better scanning glass, but sometimes the glass is still not heavy enough to push the film curl down, so the ghetto way i've overcome it is by stacking 4 quarters taped together on the edges of the better scanning glass so that the scanner lid presses down on them, which in turn presses the negatives flat. (i'm sure you could use something else of simliar thickness, but I had a pile of quarters handy from my laundry quarter stash)

I did the same thing for scanning Tri-X, but used strips of light-sealing foam instead of coins. In the end, though, I just dumped Tri-X altogether.

 

[dyao]

I usually develop my film at night and let it dry overnight. If you develop in the morning, temperatures in the house will rise during the day and contribute to curling (unless it's a cloudy and humid day, which is the best day to develop in my experience.)

 

[maddoc]

V700 / ANR glass...

V700 / ANR glass...

As I have many times shown before here ...

"natural curling" of some BW film:

effect of betterscanning ANR glass:

it really helps a lot to use the generic EPSON V700 holder with the ANR glass inserts but also tight rolling emulsion-side outside already is sufficient.

 

[dyao]

It looks like the emulsion side is facing down on that first pic.. When my film curls in like that, it curls around the emulsion side...

 

[maddoc]

It looks like the emulsion side is facing down on that first pic.. When my film curls in like that, it curls around the emulsion side...

Yup, it is curling with the emulsion-side facing down.

 

[dwaoka]

I usually put dried films inside a heavy book and leave it there for a month or so... they come out perfect 😉

be patient 🙂

 

[dyao]

Yeah, but aren't you supposed to scan with the emulsion facing up with a V700?

 

[WDPictures]

While my negatives are hanging in the closet drying I attach "binder clips" to the bottom for weight. Once they are completely dry and put in sleeves I lay them flat and stack books, magazines, etc on top for a day or more until I have time to scan. Seems to help some of the infamous Tri-x curl. Any trouble with Newton rings when you use the glass?

 

[thegman]

Yeah, but aren't you supposed to scan with the emulsion facing up with a V700?

I don't find it makes a discernible difference.