Noblex 135's V XPAN

[Bryceworld]

Hi Everyone,

First time visitor/poster/etc/you get the idea.

This post is mainly aimed at owners of both of the above cameras, and if you want to avoid the short story below, you can find the question at the bottom on the post. Thanks

I'm the proud owner of a noblex 135u, I used to have an xpan, but it was stolen after only 2weeks of use, so i have no real experience with this camera..
The Noblex i find is fantastic to use, I have had shots blown up to 50inch's wide, and they look astounding (quality wise) BUT this can only be achieved when i'm shooting at f16!! f11 is usable, but you can start to notice things aren't as sharp from there down.
The main problem i find myself facing is that I cant really do many long exosures, for instance; a 1 second exposure on the noblex takes just under 3min to complete (with the turning of the drum) and i'm mainly a landscape fanatic, so as others will be quite aware, alot can happen in 3 min and I feel like i'm almost wasting my time, as when the sky's on fire i want to fire off heaps of shots, but i have to wait for 3min for most of my exposures, due to the low light etc.
Dont get me wrong, this camera also has its advantages, esp when things are a little boring you can bend the horizon, and multiple exposures can have wonderfull effects on waves rolling in
But i'm almost at a point where i'm considering buying (ANOTHER) xpan.


So my question is, if you own both cameras, Whats the quality like on a big xpan print? Which camera do you find yourself using the most, and what do you mainly use it for?
In your opinion, what do you find the biggest disadvantage for both cameras, and whats the best positive for both cameras?
Does the 'bulb' cause any frustration, with it only lasting for a few minutes?


Thanks for all and any input.

Bryce

 

[didjiman]

... Whats the quality like on a big xpan print? Which camera do you find yourself using the most, and what do you mainly use it for?
In your opinion, what do you find the biggest disadvantage for both cameras, and whats the best positive for both cameras?
Does the 'bulb' cause any frustration, with it only lasting for a few minutes?


Thanks for all and any input.

Bryce

I don't have a Noblex, but I know that with the XPan, I can make good prints of 24"x~70" or so without problems. Smaller ones would be fine too of course

 

[Finder]

I have a Widelux F8 and a Horseman SW612. Some of these questions I cannot answer. But I do use the Horseman more than the swing lens Widelux as I find it more versatile - the Widelux is a one trick pony and once you get past the "wow, neat" effect, it is actually difficult to take really good images. The Horseman does need a center filter (and so will the Xpan). You are also going to suffer from the Wide Angle Effect. There are time when the Widelux shines and so I still have it.

 

[cmedin]

I don't have a Noblex, but I know that with the XPan, I can make good prints of 24"x~70" or so without problems. Smaller ones would be fine too of course

Isn't that a 24x enlargement from the neg? What kind of film are you using to get good results at that point?

 

[Finder]

Isn't that a 24x enlargement from the neg? What kind of film are you using to get good results at that point?

There is no direct relationship to film and maximum print size. You can enlarge any image to any size as viewing distance changes proprtionally to print size. You can make a print five miles wide if you want to (if you can find the paper and a way to print it), you just have to find a place to display it where you can stand back far enough.

 

[cmedin]

There is no direct relationship to film and maximum print size. You can enlarge any image to any size as viewing distance changes proprtionally to print size. You can make a print five miles wide if you want to (if you can find the paper and a way to print it), you just have to find a place to display it where you can stand back far enough.

You make a good point though it effectively nullifies any discussion about making big prints from any format. Heck, a Minox neg at 300 by 400 feet would look killer if you stood far enough away.

(Point taken though!)

 

[didjiman]

Isn't that a 24x enlargement from the neg? What kind of film are you using to get good results at that point?

Astia 100F and Provia 100F mainly, here are some of my XPan stuff:

Taiko Conference at U of Washington last weekend: http://www.dragonsgate.net/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3241

Don Edwards Wildlife Refuge and Drawbridge, a ghost town
http://www.dragonsgate.net/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3232

Hong Kong
http://www.dragonsgate.net/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3228

re: Quality, the Xpan lens is as good as my best Leica lens, alebit much slower. Enough said....

 

[drazin]

hows the lomo horizon compare to these cameras?

 

[veraikon]

@ didjiman: nice pics - i love the HK+ landscape
my questions: 45 mm? and with or without centre filter ?

 

[robertdfeinman]

Another option

Another option

I'll offer another option using an ultra wide angle lens on 35mm. I have the 12mm Heliar in screw mount and it covers about 112 degrees which is close to the Noblex 127.

I have some comparisons of these two formats in one of my tips:
Lens comparison

You do end up with a negative that is half the length of the Noblex or Xpan, but this may not be an issue. In another one of my tips I show how to get a 16x blowup with "decent" quality using modern film and a high resolution scanner.

 

[anglophone1]

I have all three of the discussed rigs and my answer isn "it depends" I currently favour the xpan [ so easy to pack a 3 lens kit with my other stuff, easier long exposures etc.] however I am missing the "curvy" NOBLEX " look a bit , so may be packing that instead, as my main cameras are 2xRD-1 the 12mm is always there and every so often I use it on the backup R2a film body [esp.interiors and stuff] and its amazing!
My answer will alway be , depends on what you have ready when the pic pops up., could be a Holga modded for 35mm [sort of 60mm on 6x 2.8................] which is also cool.......................
No one best thing, OK?
Clive

 

[Bryceworld]

update :

I now have my stolen xpan BACK!! Found it on ebay and had the cops sort it out, much appriciated, visit monkeyfoto.com (maybe au on the end) for the guy that helped me out..
Anyway the answer is bleeding obvious, the noblex 135u has an obvious sharper lense than that of the xpan, and i'm only comparing that to the 45mm, I think the 30mm is better built if im not mistaken?

i'm yet to take an xpan tranny to 50 inchs, mainy because i havn't got one worthy enough, but another user i've met has only ever gone to 40, and its got nothing on a noblex 40.

 

[quantum-x]

hows the lomo horizon compare to these cameras?

I had an horizon 202, and honestly, it's not even in the same ballpark.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fun camera, but it's completely different to the XPan.

#1 - It's swing lens, whereas the XPan is fixed - meaning you get 'bulges' / the 'fish eye' effect on your Horizon photos

#2 - The build of the camera doesn't compare - it's plastic, and I had bits fall off mine.

#3 - The lens quality doesn't compare

#4 - Fully manual, [which is a plus] - but no exposure meters, max exposure time of 1/2 second [unless you press the film rewind, and wind on, and reexpose, but by this stage, you've probably bumped the position]

It really depends on your usage. The Horizon is a fun camera - and nothing more. The XPan is a serious investment.

Let me dig up some comparision shots:

Horizon 202. No manip, even on the first one. It just came out like that.

XPan2

Decide for yourself

 

[quantum-x]

@ didjiman: nice pics - i love the HK+ landscape
my questions: 45 mm? and with or without centre filter ?

No need for the filter for the 45. See my posts above, all the shots I posted were on the 45 w/o filter.

 

[robertdfeinman]

Apples and Oranges

Apples and Oranges

There is a difference between a fixed- and swing-lens camera. If there wasn't we wouldn't have two types.

The Noblex is better built than the Horizon, but also costs more. Both produce cigar-shaped horizontal lines. You can regard this as a defect or one of the reasons for using the camera.

However, if you are willing to go into the digital domain (by scanning) you can correct for the cylindrical projection. I have several tips on my web site showing how to do this using the free Panorama Tools software.

The Noblex has long exposure limits, even if you get the slow speed model, but it doesn't have vignetting as is the case with wide angle lenses. Center filters are one option, but I show how you can correct for vignetting if you shoot with a film with enough latitude and expose for the corners.

Discussions about which format is "better" are never going to be resolved, but make for lively debates!

 

[Finder]

About the swing lens perspective - it is actually correct, not distorted. Flat plane cameras like the Xpan do distort reality by having increasing radial magnification toward the edges, which is why they look "normal" and suffer from the wide-angle effect (round objects looking stretched).

 

[quantum-x]

There is a difference between a fixed- and swing-lens camera. If there wasn't we wouldn't have two types.

The Noblex is better built than the Horizon, but also costs more. Both produce cigar-shaped horizontal lines. You can regard this as a defect or one of the reasons for using the camera.

However, if you are willing to go into the digital domain (by scanning) you can correct for the cylindrical projection. I have several tips on my web site showing how to do this using the free Panorama Tools software.

The Noblex has long exposure limits, even if you get the slow speed model, but it doesn't have vignetting as is the case with wide angle lenses. Center filters are one option, but I show how you can correct for vignetting if you shoot with a film with enough latitude and expose for the corners.

Discussions about which format is "better" are never going to be resolved, but make for lively debates!

I'll stick to my final statement: decide for yourself

 

[sjw617]

"No need for the filter for the 45. See my posts above, all the shots I posted were on the 45 w/o filter."

I think the pictures show that the center filter is needed.


"About the swing lens perspective - it is actually correct, not distorted. Flat plane cameras like the Xpan do distort reality by having increasing radial magnification toward the edges, which is why they look "normal" and suffer from the wide-angle effect (round objects looking stretched)."

I have seen you post this before. I do not think the graveyard shot or the train shot above support you. I do not see the bending of lines when I look at something but a swing lens camera 'distorts' what the eye sees. Do you have an example of stretching?

Steve

 

[quantum-x]

"No need for the filter for the 45. See my posts above, all the shots I posted were on the 45 w/o filter."

I think the pictures show that the center filter is needed.

Hi Steve.
I think the above examples are pretty bad subjects to judge: All are either center lit, pointing into a light source, or were shot in darkness [ Ferrish wheel shot was ~5m exposure etc]
In any case, as my personal preference, I am more than happy to take [hardly any?] vingetting for f4. Shooting at f11 equiv on the 30mm makes life difficult for me.

As for the swing lenses, I've got nothing to comment apart from it's a style choice

 

[sjw617]

I was thinking about it after I posted. I thought the lighting could well be what I am seeing. They are low light situations.