Nokton 50/1.5 on a S3 2000 problem!

underlord

underlord

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I just recently bought a Voigtlander Nokton 50mmF1.5 'S' mount for my Nikon S3 2000. I mention this because I have a problem. I cannot get the lens and body to behave correctly together. Before I go further I should point out I have a W-Nikkor 35mmF3.5 this also uses the external mount and has no issues. The Nokton, however, having been mounted correctly and with care to set infinity on the lens and body just will not focus properly. By that I mean rotating the lens does not shift the Rf patch at all and the only way it does move is by rotating the lens AND the focus wheel. The previous owner could offer no clues as they only ever used the lens with an adapter on a Sony NEX and/or m/43.
I intend taking the lens and camera to my local rangefinder guru but meanwhile, did I miss something? Any thoughts would be most welcome!
 
It could be that the spring on the lens-mount is not engaging the lens properly. The spring ion the Millennium Nikon S3 is softer than on the older models. Having been used with an adapter it could be slightly bent and now refusing to engage the slot in the lens. I had it happen on one of mine and resorted to replaing the spring from a very defunct Nikon S and the problem went away.
 
underlord said:
I just recently bought a Voigtlander Nokton 50mmF1.5 'S' mount for my Nikon S3 2000. I mention this because I have a problem. I cannot get the lens and body to behave correctly together. Before I go further I should point out I have a W-Nikkor 35mmF3.5 this also uses the external mount and has no issues. The Nokton, however, having been mounted correctly and with care to set infinity on the lens and body just will not focus properly. By that I mean rotating the lens does not shift the Rf patch at all and the only way it does move is by rotating the lens AND the focus wheel. The previous owner could offer no clues as they only ever used the lens with an adapter on a Sony NEX and/or m/43.
I intend taking the lens and camera to my local rangefinder guru but meanwhile, did I miss something? Any thoughts would be most welcome!
Click to expand...

I've seen lenses lenses damaged by incorrect mounting attempts - ie not having both the lens helical and camera helical set to infinity before mounting.

Stephen
 
underlord said:
The Nokton, however, having been mounted correctly and with care to set infinity on the lens and body just will not focus properly. By that I mean rotating the lens does not shift the Rf patch at all and the only way it does move is by rotating the lens AND the focus wheel.
Click to expand...

It sounds like the coupling collar on the rear of the lens might not be linking properly with the lens mount. There is a spring loaded collar around the rear of the lens that fits into the mount (see photo below) when the lens is attached properly. This collar is what couples the RF with the lens. You'll most likely experience the problem you're having if this collar is not seating properly.
17036640106_f5ccf5cb5f_b.jpg


If the collar is not seating properly, the cause might be burrs on the collar itself created by previous failed attempts to mount the lens. Look at the collar, and check there are no burrs - particularly on the 90 degree corners marked with the arrows below.

16876398719_966f3d333e_b.jpg


This is where the collar is on the lens.
16440340694_1973d6bf48_b.jpg


The cause could also be the lens mount itself. What is the serial number of your S3 2000? I ask because the very early ones were recalled to the factory to get the mount modified because it didn't work well with external mount lenses. There are still some early S3 2000s out there that were never modified, and it may well be that your camera is one of them. Early serial numbers are those in the S3 201xxx to S3 203xxx range. Does your camera fit in that range?
 
Thanks guys, very helpful. I knew RFF could help! The camera is S3 201013 but as I said no problems mounting the W-Nikkor. Now having looked at the mount on the lens, the mount and specifically the part described and pictured above was actually loose! I re-tightened the collar by hand and that went some way to resolving the problem. I say 'some way' as when I re-mounted the lens and tried to focus the barrel moved freely (to near distance) along with the RF and focus wheel. Returning back to infinity, well, it didn't make it and stalled short of infinity. With regard to burring, there is a small amount of silver (bare metal) showing at the points described above, but really tiny and I cannot see 'rounding' on those points. That collar seems to be the villian here. Having tightened it gently by hand and re-mounting, it managed to work loose again. Tackling this problem head-on is probably beyond my skill zone but at least your answers go some way to explain what could be happening here. It certainly appears that using this lens solely with an adapter has caused some issues. Looks like a trip to my rangefinder guy. Thanks again for your input folks and Stephen, maybe you should have sold me that 50/1.5 recently after all! (just kidding)
Philip McAllister
 
underlord said:
The camera is S3 201013 but as I said no problems mounting the W-Nikkor.
Click to expand...

201013 is one of the first off the production line! I suspect its the mount that's the problem and you just got lucky with the W-Nikkor you have now.

The collar is spring loaded and is meant to move in and out. The spring pushes it against the mount when the lens is mounted on the camera.

The red arrows in the photo below show where the rear part and front part of the mount meet. The S3 2000 recall happened because the early mounts weren't machined properly and had a slight ridge here which interfered with the collar on the lens, preventing it from seating in the mount properly. Running your finger over this point you shouldn't feel any ridge. If you do, then that's your problem.

If you have access to them, try mounting one or two other external mount lenses on your camera (carefully of course!) and see what happens.

16876783190_81a63de4f2_b.jpg
 
Thanks Jon, I really appreciate your efforts in trying to clarify my predicament! Both camera and lens are with my trusted rangefinder guy. There was some head scratching when I took it in. I have tried to send him a link to this discussion in the hope that it may reveal something he might not consider. Thanks again!
 
In addition to the S3 2000 external mount problem identified by jonmanjiro, the spring on my Nokton's coupling collar seems to be a little weaker than those on my vintage Nikon & Zeiss lenses. On rare occasions when/if I focus rapidly, the lens will lose its connection to the body helical, though going back to infinity or closest focus will usually lock it back on.
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/underlord/17999349485/

I know this thread must be in suspense but I recently got the S3 and lens back from Newton Ellis in Liverpool. Those guys do such a great job. It turns out the villain was the lens not the body. However the body was in serious need of lubrication. Not sure technically what was up with the Nokton although it was explained in (too much) detail. It was reckoned that something was loose on the rear of the lens. This was not something I noticed being not much of a tech-head. The good news is that having put a few rolls through the camera I can now report that this lens is one of the best rangefinder lenses I have owned!
 
underlord said:
Not sure technically what was up with the Nokton although
Click to expand...

Just arranged for a return of my S3 & SP from shutter capping fix with them I too have had your full story !!! He was impressed with your body (camera) though 😀

Thanks for the update, appreciated.
 
Aha! small world eh? Ian and indeed the rest of the guys at Newton Ellis are top notch. I have had numerous cameras looked after by them. Mostly a CLA but they are more than capable. Did you ship you cameras to them or do you live more local? I am only 12 miles or so from the shop which is very handy for me.
 
Indeed it is, I am further "up the road" near Preston, easily do-able but by the time fuel and parking is involved !!

Indeed the work is top class but I have waited 18 months for shutter capping and a viewfinder clean to be completed on those two bodies despite regular calls, and chats 🙄

Next time I'll buy a beater and practice on that myself!!
 
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