Cal, I'm sorry to have offended you. Is it because it was in a public forum that you took offense (as opposed to in person as we usually do)? These are not new topics for us... we diss each other all the time. "hand scanners?"
Additionally, I said collector's mentality and explained this by saying that you like the rarer versions of things. Again, I know you use your gear and I have no issue with you owning it all. As I said previously, you've always told me I can borrow anything. Why would I have an issue with that?
Collectors are not bad people at all and by no means did I mean that you don't photograph... come on man, you know I didn't mean it that way since we photograph together all of the time.
Again, sorry. We've dissed each other in the past over our differences and I didn't think this time was any different. I am opinionated, but I'm not mean spirited.
These are questions that come up... I think it's the myths that make us react. There are a lot myths about AF out there.
I said to Pramodh that some people just hate AF (that's a fact) and the misunderstanding I had of Phil's post was cleared up quickly by Phil and didn't involve you. I'm sorry it offended you that he had to explain himself to me. It was a mistake.
Perhaps it's best that I stay away from this section of the forum and the meet-ups.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
John,
That is not my intent. I know you are not mean spirited, and I know that Pro-Mine in voicing his opinion might not have recognized the points that were expressed, not to start an argument, but to answer his question directly why someone might use or prefer a manual focus lens on a DSLR. Somehow later that all got twisted as you read through the thread.
No mean intent was intended because I know you guys, but the undertone that I think we want to avoid so that we can have meet-ups that are open to everyone, where support is foremost and sharing is the highest priority.
Unfortunately bullying did happen to Hellen. I'm just trying to avoid the NYC Meet-Up from becoming more like the RFF. You are a moderator so you understand the culture. And yes because of some of that culture displayed on this forum, sometimes it gets carried over. I don't think you or Pro-Mone realized. I say no-foul, but the point is I'm trying to make people mindful that our Meet-Up is rather special, it has been going on for five years, and along the way we have made some good friends that have supported each other in a profound way.
Cal
finguanzo
Well-known
Ill buy Cal, John, and Promode a beer at the next meetup, we can all sing cumbaya.. Helen too if she decides to pass by..
If that dosent work, we go for a death march at LIC and fight it out, loser gets his gear taken and gets thrown into the questionable water....
Now that sounds like a NYC meetup....
If that dosent work, we go for a death march at LIC and fight it out, loser gets his gear taken and gets thrown into the questionable water....
Now that sounds like a NYC meetup....
JMQ
Well-known
John and Cal,
I say let's meet up for a drink and talk through any unresolved issues. email is a great tool, but it can lead to misunderstandings and there is nothing like looking at someone in the eye when working out an issue. I can speak about this first hand because I grew up in the corporate world and certainly had my share of email misunderstandings.
I say let's meet up for a drink and talk through any unresolved issues. email is a great tool, but it can lead to misunderstandings and there is nothing like looking at someone in the eye when working out an issue. I can speak about this first hand because I grew up in the corporate world and certainly had my share of email misunderstandings.
JMQ
Well-known
Looks like Fidel and I had the same idea....great minds think alike (or dimwits seldom differ...)
finguanzo
Well-known
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
John,
Just because I have the "Calzone" persona and the big mouth doesn't mean that I am in charge of the NYC Meet-Up. Just because I have a big mouth doesn't mean I'm a bully. Its everbody's Meet-Up, but seriously wouldn't it be great if some of the edge and ego that is on RFF wasn't in the meet-ups and it truely was about just supporting each other and sharing our differences.
I just made a big deal out of nothing, but like Helen said its there. I think we need to avoid the carryover of culture from the forum.
Cal
Just because I have the "Calzone" persona and the big mouth doesn't mean that I am in charge of the NYC Meet-Up. Just because I have a big mouth doesn't mean I'm a bully. Its everbody's Meet-Up, but seriously wouldn't it be great if some of the edge and ego that is on RFF wasn't in the meet-ups and it truely was about just supporting each other and sharing our differences.
I just made a big deal out of nothing, but like Helen said its there. I think we need to avoid the carryover of culture from the forum.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Not at all, I want to see them fight it out in LIC....
Fidel,
You guys are funny trying to set up John and me as gladiators for your entertainment. LOL. Do I get to use my Nikon F3P? Or better yet my M6 with Rapidgrip and Rapidwinder.
Cal
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
There IS one idea that would level the playing field for a NYC meetup...
I actually think it's a good one and something we should pursue.
Have a "zero tolerance for cameras" meeting.
The only things we bring are prints and our sea stories/tall tales/fishes that got away. It would certainly help me and it would be cool to see what will certainly wind up as a gallery's worth of photographic work.
This will eliminate all the gear talk. No auto focus vs. manual focus BS, no digital vs. film, no lens masturbation.
I don't mean this post or any part of it as offense to anyone. Please don't accuse me of doing so. I'm not pointing any fingers or wanting to incite any more ire here. This group has really affected my life in a fantastic way and it is one of those things that I really hold dear.
What say ye? A prints-only meetup?
Phil Forrest
I actually think it's a good one and something we should pursue.
Have a "zero tolerance for cameras" meeting.
The only things we bring are prints and our sea stories/tall tales/fishes that got away. It would certainly help me and it would be cool to see what will certainly wind up as a gallery's worth of photographic work.
This will eliminate all the gear talk. No auto focus vs. manual focus BS, no digital vs. film, no lens masturbation.
I don't mean this post or any part of it as offense to anyone. Please don't accuse me of doing so. I'm not pointing any fingers or wanting to incite any more ire here. This group has really affected my life in a fantastic way and it is one of those things that I really hold dear.
What say ye? A prints-only meetup?
Phil Forrest
JMQ
Well-known
Phil, I do enjoy fondling gear. If someone wants to bring a new toy (or old toy), I'd say go for it. I also enjoy learning from you guys about where to get those lovely photos bound into books. Cal gave me some advice about selling my lens, and I certainly appreciated it.
finguanzo
Well-known
Cal would probably bring the biggest print anyway..
John: I have this 11x14 I made
Cal: O yeah, check out my 20x24..... BANG!!!!
Just kidding guys, I make jokes about everything, never have taken much of anything serious.. Surprised how Im still alive sometimes..
John: I have this 11x14 I made
Cal: O yeah, check out my 20x24..... BANG!!!!
Just kidding guys, I make jokes about everything, never have taken much of anything serious.. Surprised how Im still alive sometimes..
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Phil,
I think that's a great idea. It nurtures sharing and like I said this New York Meet-Up group is really special.
I did a lot of work in the theater which is a collaborative art form. As part of a performance group we had to have a "safe place" where each others work could be nurtured so that it can evolve.
It was a time and place where ego and arrogance was left behind and everyone stayed humble.
A nice turn would be to encourage the work instead of the gear.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Cal would probably bring the biggest print anyway..
John: I have this 11x14 I made
Cal: O yeah, check out my 20x24..... BANG!!!!
Just kidding guys, I make jokes about everything, never have taken much of anything serious.. Surprised how Im still alive sometimes..
Fidel,
You have me pegged. LOL. You can't print whats not there, and I like to print big if I can. Not everything is worthy though to be humble. That's why I shoot so much.
Cal
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Cal et. al,
That's what I'm saying. We have about 11 other meetings per year and every one is gear-centric. Granted, this is a gear forum and photographers usually do love to geek out on gear but if we set aside one meeting where zero gear was allowed (out of a bag) I think we really would get to see something special.
There is a reason that M9s (among other cameras) have stopped showing up. A lot of us have moved on to other gear. But we keep showing it off and that is cool but I've never shown a real print at a meetup and that onus is on me. I'll admit for myself, It's harder to open myself up to allow others inside my vision and potentially take criticism or praise on that vision, than it is to just bring a finely crafted piece of gear that was made by a company far away or a long time ago or whatnot.
I can talk all day about how the Mamiya 6 system with the 50mm lens is the best but if I don't show anything to say I've used it then I am just showing off my camera and saying how great it is. Cameras are tools that, in my opinion, should be used. Used to bring a fraction of time in our mind's eye to someone else and stir a thought in that viewer. No matter what camera ever invented, that was the purpose for it. To draw with light onto a light sensitive medium, no matter the medium's makeup or size.
I'm all for the challenge but personally, I think we should have a rigid rule if we're going to do it, that zero cameras be allowed (outside of a bag) in the space during the meeting.
Phil Forrest
That's what I'm saying. We have about 11 other meetings per year and every one is gear-centric. Granted, this is a gear forum and photographers usually do love to geek out on gear but if we set aside one meeting where zero gear was allowed (out of a bag) I think we really would get to see something special.
There is a reason that M9s (among other cameras) have stopped showing up. A lot of us have moved on to other gear. But we keep showing it off and that is cool but I've never shown a real print at a meetup and that onus is on me. I'll admit for myself, It's harder to open myself up to allow others inside my vision and potentially take criticism or praise on that vision, than it is to just bring a finely crafted piece of gear that was made by a company far away or a long time ago or whatnot.
I can talk all day about how the Mamiya 6 system with the 50mm lens is the best but if I don't show anything to say I've used it then I am just showing off my camera and saying how great it is. Cameras are tools that, in my opinion, should be used. Used to bring a fraction of time in our mind's eye to someone else and stir a thought in that viewer. No matter what camera ever invented, that was the purpose for it. To draw with light onto a light sensitive medium, no matter the medium's makeup or size.
I'm all for the challenge but personally, I think we should have a rigid rule if we're going to do it, that zero cameras be allowed (outside of a bag) in the space during the meeting.
Phil Forrest
Ok, I'm over it. You guys know I wasn't going to stay away. I'm cool with Cal... even when we argue. I'm going to concede and not extend this.
Just when I finally got the Hello Kitty M6 we have a no camera meet-up? In all seriousness though, the meet-up is a subgroup of RFF and we welcome all types at the meet-up... collectors, image-makers, and hybrids! I enjoy the gear talk as well as looking at photos. I bring photos to almost every meet-up... but I don't want to force them on others all the time, so I sometimes don't show them to everyone.
Just when I finally got the Hello Kitty M6 we have a no camera meet-up? In all seriousness though, the meet-up is a subgroup of RFF and we welcome all types at the meet-up... collectors, image-makers, and hybrids! I enjoy the gear talk as well as looking at photos. I bring photos to almost every meet-up... but I don't want to force them on others all the time, so I sometimes don't show them to everyone.
JMQ
Well-known
well spoken John. I suggest we call these meets "Silver and Chrome"...
On a side note, we can always have image only meet-ups as a side meet-up too. Especially during the winter.
zauhar
Veteran
I think that is an excellent idea, it would be easier to schlepp prints than gear anyway!
Maybe Helen could be convinced to return with that scenario?
Randy
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Sounds like it'll be a side-meeting rather than a regular one, if we choose to organize it.
I'll post it to the Philly group as well since I'm moving back there in January.
Phil Forrest
zauhar
Veteran
Phil, I'll be there, if at all possible.
I agree fully it should be no gear, just product.
Randy