Roger Hicks
Veteran
An impressively meaningless question.
New always costs more than second-hand.
The M8.2 is an even nicer camera than the M8.
If you want it and can afford it, it's worth it. If you don't want it or can't afford it, the question doesn't affect you.
Cheers,
R.
New always costs more than second-hand.
The M8.2 is an even nicer camera than the M8.
If you want it and can afford it, it's worth it. If you don't want it or can't afford it, the question doesn't affect you.
Cheers,
R.
__hh
Well-known
I disagree. With all due respect to your credentials, the original question is about value-for-money (it did not ask "how dare Leica charge more for an 8.2 compared to a used M8.0"). No one would argue your 2 dot points, but to say that this question is "impressively meaningless" is far-fetched.
Even if one can afford the premium price tag of a new one, anyone with rocks in their head would still want to know whether the extra $$$ between 8.0 and 8.2 is worth it.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
And anyone without rocks in their head will also know that new costs more than second hand, and that a new and improved model costs more than an older model. Comparing new with second hand is therefore impressively meaningless.
As for 'worth the money', the answer is, "To whom?"
As I said in the previous post -- answering the question, you will note -- if you want it and can afford it, it's worth the money. If you don't want it or can't afford it, the question is irrelevant (and therefore impressively meaningless).
A slightly more meaningful question might be, "Is the new M8.2 worth more than the last price of a new M8" -- though the reply is the same as before, and besides, that's what it costs.
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
You will note that I gave him the benefit of the doubt and answered the question. I tried it; it's much better; for me, it's worth it.
Can I answer that question for anyone else? No. So he got an informed opinion, from someone who had tried it (probably unlike most people who have responded).
Cheers,
Roger
Fred Burton
Well-known
"As for 'worth the money,' the answer is, "To whom?"
A bit of sophistry often used to shut down opinion here. The OP asks for opinions. Opinions, even if my concerns are not the responders concerns, are meaningful to me in making decisions. If I wonder if an upgrade to a Canon 50D from my 40D would be a good idea, and ask for opinions, I certainly don't welcome responses telling me that others opinions are worthless to me. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But I asked for them, and that's the bottom line.
As someone else pointed out, opinions are the coin of the realm on forums. Why this need to shut them down?
A bit of sophistry often used to shut down opinion here. The OP asks for opinions. Opinions, even if my concerns are not the responders concerns, are meaningful to me in making decisions. If I wonder if an upgrade to a Canon 50D from my 40D would be a good idea, and ask for opinions, I certainly don't welcome responses telling me that others opinions are worthless to me. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But I asked for them, and that's the bottom line.
As someone else pointed out, opinions are the coin of the realm on forums. Why this need to shut them down?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Has anyone a better answer than, "If you can afford it and want it, it's worth the money"?
How many of the others who have responded to this thread have (a) actually tried it and (b) tried to answer the question?
I apologize for the tactlessness of calling the original a meaningless question, but as others have said, "Worth it to whom?"
How keen are you on photography? Can you write it off as a business expense? Are you rich enough it diesn't matter? Or would you have to go into debt to buy it?
The differences between the M8 and the M8.2 are far less trivial than they appear to be from a reading of the specifications. Anyone who has tried both will tell you this.
I cannot quite see how atating any of the above is trying to shut down anyone's opinion.
Cheers,
Roger
How many of the others who have responded to this thread have (a) actually tried it and (b) tried to answer the question?
I apologize for the tactlessness of calling the original a meaningless question, but as others have said, "Worth it to whom?"
How keen are you on photography? Can you write it off as a business expense? Are you rich enough it diesn't matter? Or would you have to go into debt to buy it?
The differences between the M8 and the M8.2 are far less trivial than they appear to be from a reading of the specifications. Anyone who has tried both will tell you this.
I cannot quite see how atating any of the above is trying to shut down anyone's opinion.
Cheers,
Roger
Richard Marks
Rexel
This is an oversimplification. Just because some one has the funds and desires something does not equal automatic purchase (although this would be the case for my 4 year old son).
Richard
mikebrice
Member
I passed on the M8 when it first came out, but I bought a M8.2 at Photo Village when I was in NYC this past week for Photo Plus.
They had a used M8 available, and new M8s with the rebate, but I decided that it was worth it to me for a M8.2.
They had a used M8 available, and new M8s with the rebate, but I decided that it was worth it to me for a M8.2.
kevin m
Veteran
Well Buckaroo Banzai said it better: No matter where you go, there you are. Sophistry doesn't get much better than that.
This is a forum, Roger, where conversation - however meaningless - is not only allowed, it's the very purpose of the place. Unlike the rest of us, you already have outlets to post your writing free from feedback from the hoi polloi, so don't be greedy.
jky
Well-known
2X? I guess if you purchase the original M8 used then it would be... What are they selling for now - a little over $3000 used according to the classifieds here.
Anyway, is it worth it? I think if the slight improvements are what you've been yearning for & you have the ability to purchase it then why not? I decided to have the shutter upgrade done after hearing it on the 8.2 because that's what was important to me...
horses for courses or however the saying goes...
Anyway, is it worth it? I think if the slight improvements are what you've been yearning for & you have the ability to purchase it then why not? I decided to have the shutter upgrade done after hearing it on the 8.2 because that's what was important to me...
horses for courses or however the saying goes...
jack palmer
Well-known
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
In the digital world, I usually never buy the top-range product. When everyone was going to 10 megapixel DSLRs, I bought one with 6. I still have never spent more than $300 on a television set. So, I'd buy a used M8 before I bought a M8.2.
But that's MY choice, the OP will need to make their own choice on this one.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
And to quote Bob Roll, "Opinions are like elbows. Everybody has one, and they all are bent".
jky
Well-known
I must be one of the ones with no sense... oh and a sucker on top of that for paying more than what a very capable N!kon-D90 is worth for a measly shutter upgrade...
But... I didn't buy a new 8.2... so I'm not that bad of a loser!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Jack,
What other measure of 'worth' is there, as applied to a selling price, than the price that is paid by someone who wants something and can afford it? And who is the judge of when someone becomes a sucker? Yourself, by implication. I may be arrogant, but I'm not that arrogant.
For me, for example, the price of an admission ticket to a football game is the most complete waste of money I can readily imagine. Indeed, if for some reason I were threatened with having to go to a football game, I would pay money to be relieved of the obligation.
It is perfectly understandable why someone would lust after something they cannot afford (much as I would like a Bristol Fighter). It is perfectly understandable why someone might be more or less dismissive of something they can afford (like me and the football match).
What I find puzzling, though, is why so many people wish to be negative about things they either don't want or can't afford: I've no desire to own a Rolls Royce and I can't afford one, but I'd never presume to tell anyone that they aren't worth the money.
The same is true, actually, of any new car. They're not worth the money to me, and I certainly wouldn't be foolish enough to go into debt to buy one (the only new car I ever bought, I wrote a cheque for. That was about 18 years ago and I've never bought another new car since).
In my view, on the other hand, an M8.2 is worth the money. If you can afford it. Right now, I just about can, without going into debt. If I couldn't, I wouldn't deny that it's worth the money; I'd just classify it in that category of things (like the Bristol fighter) that I'd like but can't afford.
Cheers,
Roger
jack palmer
Well-known
Sucker:a person easily cheated or taken in; dupe
a person highly susceptible to the attractions of something specified
any person or thing: often used humorously or affectionately, or to express mild annoyance.
a person highly susceptible to the attractions of something specified
any person or thing: often used humorously or affectionately, or to express mild annoyance.
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jky
Well-known
Well said, Roger.
When comparing the cost of a new 8.2 to a new 8, the difference is not double. If memory serves me correctly, the new 8s were selling for approx $5500... so $700.00 less than a new 8.2. So apples to apples comparison - somebody getting into drf is paying $700.00 extra for what some people say the way the M8 was intended to be.
I'm sure we'll have this discussion again in a couple years when we ask why the new M9/M8.3 costs "2X" a used 8.2.
When comparing the cost of a new 8.2 to a new 8, the difference is not double. If memory serves me correctly, the new 8s were selling for approx $5500... so $700.00 less than a new 8.2. So apples to apples comparison - somebody getting into drf is paying $700.00 extra for what some people say the way the M8 was intended to be.
I'm sure we'll have this discussion again in a couple years when we ask why the new M9/M8.3 costs "2X" a used 8.2.
jack palmer
Well-known
No, you and Roger may be talking about it in a couple of years but most everyone else will have moved on to something more important. And... I didn't think it was very well said at all.It was just someone trying to justify over paying for something that Canon or Nikon could produce for less than half the cost. But then it wouldn't have Leica written on it.
yanidel
Well-known
Roger's term of meaningless was not the term I would have used but as written before, and as noticed by a member, the whole reasoning runs into circle. As long all posters do not have the same scale of value of money, this discussion will lead nowhere. You can't compare the purchasing behavior of a waiter with the one of a dentist
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jky
Well-known
...probably best to reread the op... it'll give you a hint as to who's talking about it..
Also, I have a little dinky Sony bookshelf in my basement... It sounds as good as my friend's Bang & Olufsen - he must be a sucker also. But you know what? He's an audiophile & he loves it - he can discern the difference though I cannot, but to say that he's just justifying his expensive purchase is ludicrous of me because his reason for choosing B&O and mine for choosing Sony are different. Now if he chose to buy his stereo rather than put food in the fridge to feed his kid, I'd have a different opinion...
Also, If Canon or Nikon ever produces a digital rf @ "half the cost", then you're argument is valid. However....