Nudes. Your partners attitude?

Someone I knew many years ago, who had a successful business in photography for the art world, made a comment to me on this subject:

"Photographers lack the essential honesty of painters and sculptors, when it comes to sex. No artist would insult his model by failing to make a pass at her."

It is, I think, an interesting view on the matter, though one I am not in a position to judge.
 
Someone I knew many years ago, who had a successful business in photography for the art world, made a comment to me on this subject:

"Photographers lack the essential honesty of painters and sculptors, when it comes to sex. No artist would insult his model by failing to make a pass at her."

It is, I think, an interesting view on the matter, though one I am not in a position to judge.
Ah... Advertising and fashion in the 1960s and 1970s. But sometimes the pass was made only for form's sake, in order to avoid insulting the model.

Cheers,

R.
 
IMO there's nothing more boring than a 'tasteful' nude although that mostly has to do with that very old fashioned notion of tastefulness.

Herein lies one of the most interesting dichotomies of making and viewing nudes... everyone wants to label and to categorize them; but all most have in common is that they show an unclothed human. Name a photographer who is famous for nudes and each has a different adjective assigned to their work. The older I get, the more I've come to recognize that taste resides in one's mouth. What I find fascinating, you will either find offensive or boring. That's what making and viewing art is all about.

I also don't agree with the view that a creepy perv can't take good photographs.

If you were referring to my post about "creepy" or "sleazy" photographers, I wasn't referring to or assigning either adjective to their work product. As far as I'm concerned, photographs are merely photographs. Any emotion is assigned by the viewer. I was, however, referring to their business practices and how they relate to their models; particularly those "photographers" who have no training or experience, but who buy a camera to shoot nudes with and then advertise for models. I guess I mostly object to our craft being used as a lure for sex and the sleazy aura that projects on (for lack of a better term) "legitimate" photographers.

Quite so.

As we went through the book together, it became clear that she'd never seen much of his work. She produced what I think is the best summary of Hamilton's photography that I have ever heard: "You see one or two, and you think, wow, that's great. Then you see some more, and you think, yeah, they're pretty good too. But after a while, you start asking yourself: what else can he do?"

Cheers,

R.

Regardless of the genre, that really becomes one of the greatest challenges of photographers in general, doesn't it? How does one develop a style that doesn't translate into a portfolio of a thousand essentially identical and boring images?
 
If you were referring to my post about "creepy" or "sleazy" photographers, I wasn't referring to or assigning either adjective to their work product. As far as I'm concerned, photographs are merely photographs. Any emotion is assigned by the viewer. I was, however, referring to their business practices and how they relate to their models; particularly those "photographers" who have no training or experience, but who buy a camera to shoot nudes with and then advertise for models. I guess I mostly object to our craft being used as a lure for sex and the sleazy aura that projects on (for lack of a better term) "legitimate" photographers.

I wasn't directly referring to your comment, just to the general notion that being serious about photography and being a sleazy perv that wants to sleep with the model are mutually exclusive. As has been established, there are some very good photographers that are pervs.
I know what you mean about photographers that use photography for sex but I don't think training or experience has anything to do with it.
 
"Photographers lack the essential honesty of painters and sculptors, when it comes to sex. No artist would insult his model by failing to make a pass at her.

"Essential honesty"! Painting and Sculpture love to piss on Photography, Art's idiot bas**rd child. Except for the tiniest fraction of the art I've seen in this world so far, I can only hope the painter's and sculptor's sexual performance is better than their art, if only for the model's sake.

s-a
 
I've dated a few girls who were interested in having me do nudes of them. The first attempt was pretty boring, she looked very disinterested in all of them, which just made me end up feeling like a pervert. The next girlfriend was much more into it, and we tried three or four times. She was very comfortable with herself and supportive of my photography, so we had much better results. The best one I took ended up being kind of sleazy in that I used a flash, although it's kind of classy in that there's no actual nudity. I was going for a classic pin-up look. I'd love to do more like this, which are more suggestive than anything else.


pin-up by scottkessler, on Flickr
 
Just thinking out loud here, but... if many of the finest photojournalists in history held strong partisan political views, what is the role of enforced sterility some are suggesting is absolutely necessary in nude photography?

Surely sexual interest and respect are not mutually exclusive?

If a man photographs a nude model and ALSO wants to sleep with her, is it more professional of him to conceal this fact from others and himself? Will it make the photos better?

My $0.02 is that respect and decency is what matters here and neither of them have anything to do with sex or desire, only what you do with those feelings. Some would have us believe that the high ratio of men shooting nude women to women shooting nude women is due to appalling male behaviour and the exploitation of women by male perverts masquerading as photographers. I would simplify it by suggesting that where 'men enjoying seeing women naked' ends and 'fine art' begins is impossible to define, and quite frankly, pointless. I would also venture that the quality of the 'art' would diminish to zero when the subjects become about as sexual as a vase of flowers.

Lets go tear up Edward Weston's photos of Charis, and Jean Loup Sieff's cheeky nudes, because I have a horrible feeling they may have strayed over that line.

FWIW the women in my life, past and present, have had no issue with me shooting nudes primarily because they have been the nudes. I have also talked to them about photographing other women and as long as I go to bed with my girlfriends and not the models, all will be well. Can I promise that I will not find any of the models attractive? Of course not, but the same issue exists whenever I walk out the front door, as it does for them. IMHO, its about confidence in yourself and the trust of your partner. You can't make sex go away by self-imposed piety. It has not worked terribly well for Catholic Priests now has it?

You have made some very valid and fine points here. I have to agree with them.

If I were to take up making images of beautiful naked women, I would no doubt find some (probably most) of them attractive. I might become aroused by being in the presence of a beautiful woman with not a thread of clothing on; after all, I am a human male who is attracted to women.

However, I am also married to a woman that I love deeply. Therefore, I would not make a pass at my model out of respect for my wife, my commitment to our marriage and our family - and out of respect for the model as well. That's just the way I would deal with the situation.

I find it both sad and unfortunate that nudity is regarded as something to be locked away and kept secret by the majority of people in western cultures, as if it is something unwholesome or is somehow "dirty" or "nasty."

JMHO but nudity is not "dirty" or "nasty" unless someone makes it that way.

More often than not, it is the viewer of the nude photograph that makes it "dirty" within the confines of his or her cranium rather than it being a case of the photographer making it "dirty" in the camera or darkroom.
 
You have made some very valid and fine points here. I have to agree with them.

If I were to take up making images of beautiful naked women, I would no doubt find some (probably most) of them attractive. I might become aroused by being in the presence of a beautiful woman with not a thread of clothing on; after all, I am a human male who is attracted to women.

However, I am also married to a woman that I love deeply. Therefore, I would not make a pass at my model out of respect for my wife, my commitment to our marriage and our family - and out of respect for the model as well. That's just the way I would deal with the situation.

I find it both sad and unfortunate that nudity is regarded as something to be locked away and kept secret by the majority of people in western cultures, as if it is something unwholesome or is somehow "dirty" or "nasty."

JMHO but nudity is not "dirty" or "nasty" unless someone makes it that way.


More often than not, it is the viewer of the nude photograph that makes it "dirty" within the confines of his or her cranium rather than it being a case of the photographer making it "dirty" in the camera or darkroom.


My interest in this whole area has extended from an interest in portraiture. In portraiture, I tend to like images that reveal something vulnerable and honest in the subject. There's something great about a nude portrait, in that it can remove a whole lot of props that people hide behind. There can also be a sense of timelessness, in that you can compare a nudes from completely different timeframes, and there isn't always a lot of difference. We can be reminded of the commonality of our human experience.

I've mentioned earlier in this thread that I particularly appreciate Mona Kuhn's nudes taken in a French naturist community. In trying to analyze why these images appeal to me in particular, I've read up on naturism a little. Naturists are not the sex-addicted exhibitionists my Baptist upbringing would lead me to believe. The appeal of naturism can be: a desire to experience nature more closely through your senses; a desire to interact with people without the power struggles/social-status represented by clothing and possessions; a desire to live simply; a desire to return to a truer version of ourselves (which kind of echoes psychology's obsession with peeling back the layers of ourselves).

I also find it interesting that naturism has links with pacifism. Naturism has flourished in post-war periods. Naturism and pacifism are kind of both idealistic states, in my mind. However, both are incredibly vulnerable states of being, open to abuse.

Mona Kuhn talks about being interested in a multi-dimensional representation of who we are in her nudes, with sexuality being part of it. There's a great interview here. We can't be fully human without sexuality. Neither can we be fully human, when only represented as sexual objects.

The success of Mona Kuhn's work, in my mind, lies in the trust between her and her subjects (and I can't help but wonder if it helps that she's a woman). If nudity is a vulnerable state, open to abuse by the person holding the camera, Mona Kuhn has diffused this power difference by immersing herself in the community and beginning from a point of relationship and trust.

I realize this is a very narrow portion of what "art nudes" are, but it's something that I appreciate right now, and have been thinking about considerably.
 
One of the funniest shoots in my professional career was a commissioned nude shoot. A very good looking lady was going to marry a wealthy but very busy businessman ( not very young anymore..) She wanted to have a book of herself shot nude, and printed as "book of inspiration" to be put under the pillow in the hotel room of their marriage party, in case the guy felt " a little tired"after the marriage party...
 
One of the funniest shoots in my professional career was a commissioned nude shoot. A very good looking lady was going to marry a wealthy but very busy businessman ( not very young anymore..) She wanted to have a book of herself shot nude, and printed as "book of inspiration" to be put under the pillow in the hotel room of their marriage party, in case the guy felt " a little tired"after the marriage party...
WONDERFUL story!

Not in the same class, but when we shot a wedding for an old friend's daughter, Frances shot a 'bride dressing' sequence which was, in effect, a reverse strip-tease. She printed this at 6x9cm for a tiny, vintage morocco-bound album to give to the new husband: the pictures were NOT shown to the other guests...

They've been very happy for a decade or so and now have two daughters, both (I think) at school. Any news from your former client?

Cheers,

R.
 
Somebody at the beginning mentioned my photo of Melanie
on tree roots -- we shot there twice and most like the first
version but I prefer the second:


Hiking Coleman Boundary. by sandersnyc, on Flickr

It can be about sex but I think it says more about the speaker
to insist that all shooters of naked people are driven by erotic
impulse.


Sanders, That was me who mentioned the photo of Melody...and it was the first version of her with this tree root since I've never seen this version...I do like the first version better...😀
OT...I've seen some recent pictures of Charlie...he's so big now...good looking family you've got there...
 
WONDERFUL story!

Not in the same class, but when we shot a wedding for an old friend's daughter, Frances shot a 'bride dressing' sequence which was, in effect, a reverse strip-tease. She printed this at 6x9cm for a tiny, vintage morocco-bound album to give to the new husband: the pictures were NOT shown to the other guests...

They've been very happy for a decade or so and now have two daughters, both (I think) at school. Any news from your former client?

Cheers,

R.

Divoced, sorry to say... It just shows, If you are VERY wealthy and very old, it does not matter to the woman ( She can wait...) but if the woman can make her own money and the man is... hmmm how should I put it? (needs those little blue pills...) Woman will seek for the "real thing" quite soon...
 
I think that for the good nude photography first you need to be very good in portraits. I would never approach this area, unless I will be very skilfull in taking portrtaits.
 
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