Steve M.
Veteran
Them that can, take photos. Them that can't get a doctorate degree and write drivel. Or words to that effect. It's a truism for a reason....it's true.
But I love those quotes Sparrow put up. If I have trouble sleeping, that sort of reading works wonders. And it has nothing to do w/ Sontag really, it's that whole, useless as t*ts on a bullfrog, idiotic sub species that is incapable of using clear and concise language. Because the truth is, if they ever did that, they would just sound ridiculous.
But I love those quotes Sparrow put up. If I have trouble sleeping, that sort of reading works wonders. And it has nothing to do w/ Sontag really, it's that whole, useless as t*ts on a bullfrog, idiotic sub species that is incapable of using clear and concise language. Because the truth is, if they ever did that, they would just sound ridiculous.
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dyao
Well-known
I take it you skip the introduction?
GSNfan
Well-known
Kerouac's introduction is neither philosophy nor intellectual mumbo jumbo, Its a poetic tribute to Frank's work.
Turtle
Veteran
Your quotes made me chuckle and of course you are right. I guess my filter was on when I read it and I ended up reading things that made sense in many respects, but as you say, presented in a verbose manner, complete with somersaults
alistair.o
Well-known
I find looking at photos so much more interesting that talking about them... some of my favorite photographers couldn't give a rats ass about all that babble, doesn't make them any less good
Two pints (sic), if I may:-
1. "I find looking at photos so much more interesting that talking about them..."
100% in agreement
2. "...some of my favorite photographers couldn't give a rats ass about all that babble, doesn't make them any less good"
100% in agreement
I don't give a flying firkin for 99% of philosophical talk and debate that has gone on, goes on and is yet to be undertaken. Many, many people live in their own little worlds without true reference to reality. A picture is a picture is a picture. If another party wishes to read into that picture so be it, I just assume that they are taking a rest from reading tea leaves.
Al
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
The problem I have with this is that I do understand it, and am entirely comfortable with the concepts. Yet I am about as far removed from the NY art-speak gallery and academic art worlds as you can get, a mere under-educated working stiff. But I find Sontag pretty accessible, along with Barthes'. Their work has informed my view of photography, of which I consider myself fortunate. What I don't understand is the Sontag phobia I see evident. But that's okay, each to their own.
~Joe
Sparrow
Veteran
The problem I have with this is that I do understand it, and am entirely comfortable with the concepts. Yet I am about as far removed from the NY art-speak gallery and academic art worlds as you can get, a mere under-educated working stiff. But I find Sontag pretty accessible, along with Barthes'. Their work has informed my view of photography, of which I consider myself fortunate. What I don't understand is the Sontag phobia I see evident. But that's okay, each to their own.
~Joe
... and so do I, qualified and a forty year career in art and design ... she doesn't frighten me and it doesn't stop her talking twaddle, I speak so those who don't have the benefit of the education or experience don't feel they are missing anything
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bensyverson
Well-known
Yeah, right, a picture is a picture is a picture. You should never "read into" it. For example, my cat pictures are no different from this:
And this is just a picture of a trike:
It's fine if you don't want to engage in critical thought, but I wouldn't brag about it.
And this is just a picture of a trike:
It's fine if you don't want to engage in critical thought, but I wouldn't brag about it.
benlees
Well-known
I should be used to this by now but I am always amazed at the vitriol towards the theoretical end of art and photography. A lot of people write about this stuff because there are a lot of ideas about it. Photography is not as clear cut as it seems- this should be obvious. A photo always says something whether or not you pay attention.
alistair.o
Well-known
I am not shooting from the hip and without aiming correctly IMO. Of course there is objective criticism and rightly so as we are passionate beings.
alistair.o
Well-known
You are right of course "You shouldn't read into it" - well done. As for your trike picture, again you are correct, it is, ...a trike.
As for engaging in critical thought, there are many who purport to do this but in fact peddle 'subjective clap trap'
bensyverson
Well-known
I only wish it was my trike picture.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Frankly, I'll go with Sparrow here. This is the kind of over-intellectualizing of something which gives me a headache. "Ecology of images," indeed. Who the hell is Susan Sontag to dictate who shoots, and what to shoot?
But then Susan Sontag is an "intellectual." I remember Tom Wolfe quoting someone about the deftinition of an""intellectual." Something to the effect that an intellectual is someone who pontificates with great authority on a subject in which they have no real expertise at all (and I remember Mr. Wolfe referred to Ms. Sontag as an example of this.).
Guess my feeling is I'll take the picture because, well, I like the image--or the moment--and let someone else pump out a 5,000-word essay on "the meaning of it all."
But then Susan Sontag is an "intellectual." I remember Tom Wolfe quoting someone about the deftinition of an""intellectual." Something to the effect that an intellectual is someone who pontificates with great authority on a subject in which they have no real expertise at all (and I remember Mr. Wolfe referred to Ms. Sontag as an example of this.).
Guess my feeling is I'll take the picture because, well, I like the image--or the moment--and let someone else pump out a 5,000-word essay on "the meaning of it all."
Sparrow
Veteran
... ya'but had it been yours would it still be art? ... or would it need some pretentious text to go with it?
bensyverson
Well-known
Only amateurs worry about what is and isn't "art."
Sparrow
Veteran
possibly; but that's not an answer to the question I asked, is it?
Andy Kibber
Well-known
Every time I turn on the TV or go to the coffee shop I see folks who don't have the benefit of education or experience in art and design wringing their hands and wondering if they're missing something in Sontag's writing. You have a lot of work to do, Stewart.
Sparrow
Veteran
... it's a tough job ...
GSNfan
Well-known
Take the time to offer some concrete reasons as to why people should read Sontag and where she makes sense if at all... I always find it disappointing that most discussion on the forums either become an exercise in trying to be cute and witty and on the flip side complaints and handringing. I really like to learn because then I don't feel guilty about my time spent on the forum - and I have learned a lot by forum discussions.
skibeerr
Well-known
Read it all and you may come to a conclusion yourself.