Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Rob,
Wow! The analogies are exact. Grayscales instead of black and white. Sharpness instead of wooliness. Contrast: of views and cultures. Superb! THAT'S what I really value in the 'off topic' stuff.
As for the 'cornerstone of civilization', even more so. as soon as we stand for less, we are diminised.
Cheers,
Roger
Wow! The analogies are exact. Grayscales instead of black and white. Sharpness instead of wooliness. Contrast: of views and cultures. Superb! THAT'S what I really value in the 'off topic' stuff.
As for the 'cornerstone of civilization', even more so. as soon as we stand for less, we are diminised.
Cheers,
Roger
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R
Richard Black
Guest
I have been an interested participant in the thread begun by Roger because I read about the commentary on the level of historical awareness a growing number of our citizenry around the world suffers. The historical issue regarding the debate on the use of atomic weapons was recently a debate on the History Channel and considered views from all areas. As a son of a man who fought in WWII I have an opinion on the war that was shaped by my Dad. As mentioned in an earlier contributions about the lack of civility in the current U.S. political life, I did "enjoy" the discussion here without the flaming received elsewhere. I believe it is possible to debate touchy subjects without blasting someone. Maybe that is what I like most about this community.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Richard,
This seems to me to cut to the heart of the matter. What shapes our opinions? Both my grandfathers were killed in WW2: my opinions were partly shaped by my grandmothers (both widows, obviously, born 1901 and 1902); my parents; my upbringing as a child of the 60s (including anti-Vietnam demonstrations); and my general reading.
If I have discussed one topic with someone -- even a subject as trivial as the best kind of camera -- and found his or her opinion valuable or illuminating, then it seems natural to me to want to discuss other topics. As I said in the opening letter, I find distasteful the view that others on the forum are fit to discuss only one camera or another or one developer or another. There are some great people on this forum, and I find their views important -- even those who DON'T want to discuss other topics.
Cheers,
Roger
This seems to me to cut to the heart of the matter. What shapes our opinions? Both my grandfathers were killed in WW2: my opinions were partly shaped by my grandmothers (both widows, obviously, born 1901 and 1902); my parents; my upbringing as a child of the 60s (including anti-Vietnam demonstrations); and my general reading.
If I have discussed one topic with someone -- even a subject as trivial as the best kind of camera -- and found his or her opinion valuable or illuminating, then it seems natural to me to want to discuss other topics. As I said in the opening letter, I find distasteful the view that others on the forum are fit to discuss only one camera or another or one developer or another. There are some great people on this forum, and I find their views important -- even those who DON'T want to discuss other topics.
Cheers,
Roger
bmattock
Veteran
Well, *I* am certainly not one-dimensional. I'm much too thick for that.
I'm pretty simple, and I spent less time thinking about Sartre than I do my taxes. I consider the science of evolution accurate, but I fall down on my knees in front of my Creator. I think people have the right to do what they want to their own bodies, but I wish some of them wouldn't do *that* to them. Plato and Pliny the Elder are terrific, but I gotta work and pay the mortgage. I'd buy American more often if we didn't make so much that is pure crap. I'm not very good at holding a grudge, although I have tried from time to time. I try to give with my heart and vote with my head, but sometimes I get the two confused, like everyone, I suppose. I aim a tad high and hold my breath while squeezing the trigger gently. I suspect the world would be a better place without a few people who are currently in it - but I don't think I have the right to remove them. I don't like bobble-head dolls or television commercials or 'reality' TV shows.
I believe in going outside and working on my lawn until it feels like my arms are going to fall off. I got stung by a wasp today. I killed the wasp. Ooh-Rah.
I believe in hosing off my puppies and watching them run around like lunatics. Sometimes I join them.
I believe in saying the Rosary before Mass because it feels really good to hear the whole congregation respond with one voice.
I believe in taking photographs and using them to make my friends and family happy, because that makes me happy.
I believe in doing basic research and voting on topics that are important to me, for candidates that I think will do the least damage or steal the least money from me.
I believe in wearing funny hats and making faces at small children until they cry.
I believe that rock-n-roll will never die.
I believe in root beer floats.
I believe in high-powered firearms and things that blow the hell up.
I believe in the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit and the US Marine Corps.
I believe I've got at least one good book in me, and I wanna get it out before I die.
I believe I've yet to take my best photograph, but it's out there somewhere.
I believe in the power of laughter, hugs, dogs, and picnics.
I believe that RFF members are some of the coolest people I've ever met.
I believe Otis Redding has the power to cure what ails you. So do Foghorn Leghorn cartoons.
And I believe I'm going to order some take-away pizza from the local joint down the street, and then I'm going to have another beer. Later, I may snore.
http://www.growlery.com/first_fridays/
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Wilson, North Carolina
I'm pretty simple, and I spent less time thinking about Sartre than I do my taxes. I consider the science of evolution accurate, but I fall down on my knees in front of my Creator. I think people have the right to do what they want to their own bodies, but I wish some of them wouldn't do *that* to them. Plato and Pliny the Elder are terrific, but I gotta work and pay the mortgage. I'd buy American more often if we didn't make so much that is pure crap. I'm not very good at holding a grudge, although I have tried from time to time. I try to give with my heart and vote with my head, but sometimes I get the two confused, like everyone, I suppose. I aim a tad high and hold my breath while squeezing the trigger gently. I suspect the world would be a better place without a few people who are currently in it - but I don't think I have the right to remove them. I don't like bobble-head dolls or television commercials or 'reality' TV shows.
I believe in going outside and working on my lawn until it feels like my arms are going to fall off. I got stung by a wasp today. I killed the wasp. Ooh-Rah.
I believe in hosing off my puppies and watching them run around like lunatics. Sometimes I join them.
I believe in saying the Rosary before Mass because it feels really good to hear the whole congregation respond with one voice.
I believe in taking photographs and using them to make my friends and family happy, because that makes me happy.
I believe in doing basic research and voting on topics that are important to me, for candidates that I think will do the least damage or steal the least money from me.
I believe in wearing funny hats and making faces at small children until they cry.
I believe that rock-n-roll will never die.
I believe in root beer floats.
I believe in high-powered firearms and things that blow the hell up.
I believe in the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit and the US Marine Corps.
I believe I've got at least one good book in me, and I wanna get it out before I die.
I believe I've yet to take my best photograph, but it's out there somewhere.
I believe in the power of laughter, hugs, dogs, and picnics.
I believe that RFF members are some of the coolest people I've ever met.
I believe Otis Redding has the power to cure what ails you. So do Foghorn Leghorn cartoons.
And I believe I'm going to order some take-away pizza from the local joint down the street, and then I'm going to have another beer. Later, I may snore.
http://www.growlery.com/first_fridays/
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Wilson, North Carolina
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
Yours are indeed some of the opinions I value most, despite ENORMOUS differences in our world pictures. For example, as a rather shaky Buddhist I try to avoid killing even wasps, though lately I have given in on flies, and you DO have the right to remove people by voting them out. I find it fascinating that a man so reflective and clear-thinking can hold certain political views (I think you know which ones...) and I'd really hate it if you restricted yourself only to cameras, developers and the like.
Incidentally this is supposed to be a COMPLIMENT, not an attack. I thought I'd better add that...
Cheers,
Roger
Yours are indeed some of the opinions I value most, despite ENORMOUS differences in our world pictures. For example, as a rather shaky Buddhist I try to avoid killing even wasps, though lately I have given in on flies, and you DO have the right to remove people by voting them out. I find it fascinating that a man so reflective and clear-thinking can hold certain political views (I think you know which ones...) and I'd really hate it if you restricted yourself only to cameras, developers and the like.
Incidentally this is supposed to be a COMPLIMENT, not an attack. I thought I'd better add that...
Cheers,
Roger
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Certainly RFF's range of "on-topic" topics is not even remotely one dimensional or boring. And we can "speak" our views of the world through our photos. SHOW me your world! Discuss reactions to the photos...RDW said:
I'd prefer not to read another member's written view on hot-button off-topic issues. I try to avoid those posts because I think my positive feelings about fellow members developed through discussions of photography may very well be undermined by learning their extreme views of controversial matters. Knowing something I find distasteful about another member, I'm afraid, may color my further interaction. Or maybe not, but in general I'd prefer not to know. Yet I think this is still far from "one dimensional." Not sure I've ever online aired this feeling...
back alley
IMAGES
"I believe it is possible to debate touchy subjects without blasting someone. Maybe that is what I like most about this community."
i do also.
but does that mean that we NEED to do it here?
i am simply saying it can be done other places and while i may respect you, like you, whatever, i really just want to hear about rf stuff while i'm HERE.
everyone seems to agree that rff is a great place to be because of the people and how we behave in such a civil manner.
i just want it to stay that way.
"I find distasteful the view that others on the forum are fit to discuss only one camera or another or one developer or another."
who has this view? who said that?
'fit to discuss' - that's not fair, you're changing the words/meanings to fit your view.
i've had my fill of this conversation, you all know where i stand and the reasons behind it.
joe
i do also.
but does that mean that we NEED to do it here?
i am simply saying it can be done other places and while i may respect you, like you, whatever, i really just want to hear about rf stuff while i'm HERE.
everyone seems to agree that rff is a great place to be because of the people and how we behave in such a civil manner.
i just want it to stay that way.
"I find distasteful the view that others on the forum are fit to discuss only one camera or another or one developer or another."
who has this view? who said that?
'fit to discuss' - that's not fair, you're changing the words/meanings to fit your view.
i've had my fill of this conversation, you all know where i stand and the reasons behind it.
joe
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ruben
Guest
Hi all,
I add my vote on behalf of OTs. They can spark some additional salt, or be left un-answered.
AND, btw, they will tell us something about the guy or girl behind the camera.
Cheers,
Ruben
I add my vote on behalf of OTs. They can spark some additional salt, or be left un-answered.
AND, btw, they will tell us something about the guy or girl behind the camera.
Cheers,
Ruben
Y
yankeedoll
Guest
Last post on this subject:
This is the Rangefinder Forum for rangefinder enthusiasts. There is enough diversity in our opinions of different cameras, film, developing, methods, subject matter, etc. It's all we need.
Thank you all.
This is the Rangefinder Forum for rangefinder enthusiasts. There is enough diversity in our opinions of different cameras, film, developing, methods, subject matter, etc. It's all we need.
Thank you all.
dmr
Registered Abuser
As I've said before several times (wow, 504 posts, I must be a major motormouth here) there are many things I like about this place.
One is the diversity of the people here, both in lifestyle/culture, and in geography/nationality, and the diversity of views on all topics photographic and otherwise. One thing I like about the people is that with rare exception there are none who seem to have that hair-trigger knee-jerk manner of responding to something they disagree with. The people here tend to respect each others' opinions. I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I might post something that disagrees with somebody else.
Another thing I appreciate is the style of moderation, and again, I don't feel like I need to walk on eggshells worrying about saying something that the Powers That Be<tm> might not like. Many online forums (fora) have heavy-handed overly authoritarian moderators, and I appreciate the lack of that here.
As to on/off topic, particularly on political subjects, it seems like there's a significant overlap between photography and politics lately, in particular subjects that revolve around a theme of what is and is not perimssible to photograph and under what conditions. This is of course a subset of civil liberties in general. I really don't see how such digressions can be totally considered off topic.
However, one other thing I appreciate about this place is the lack of the endless-loop left-right red-blue drek that just gets louder but no more enlightening with each iteration. Such things, in my not so humble opinion, are indeed off topic here.
One is the diversity of the people here, both in lifestyle/culture, and in geography/nationality, and the diversity of views on all topics photographic and otherwise. One thing I like about the people is that with rare exception there are none who seem to have that hair-trigger knee-jerk manner of responding to something they disagree with. The people here tend to respect each others' opinions. I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I might post something that disagrees with somebody else.
Another thing I appreciate is the style of moderation, and again, I don't feel like I need to walk on eggshells worrying about saying something that the Powers That Be<tm> might not like. Many online forums (fora) have heavy-handed overly authoritarian moderators, and I appreciate the lack of that here.
As to on/off topic, particularly on political subjects, it seems like there's a significant overlap between photography and politics lately, in particular subjects that revolve around a theme of what is and is not perimssible to photograph and under what conditions. This is of course a subset of civil liberties in general. I really don't see how such digressions can be totally considered off topic.
However, one other thing I appreciate about this place is the lack of the endless-loop left-right red-blue drek that just gets louder but no more enlightening with each iteration. Such things, in my not so humble opinion, are indeed off topic here.
kiev4a
Well-known
I come here to have fun, meet new people and exchange information about photography, not to debate (although that's what I seem to be doing now).
Certainly, some threads start out talking about rangefunders and wander far afield. That's to be expected. What I can't understand is why some individuals seem to think they have a duty to enlighten us or stimulate us or whatever, on controversial topics outside photography. And if those threads run their course of are deleted these people seem to insist on starting another off topic telling us why it is important that they be allowed to enlighten and/or stimulate us mentally.
As I have stated before, if I want to debate politics or world affairs, I will go to sites that specialize in those subjects. And I don't appreciate it when someone suggests that because I would rather stick to photography subjects I am shallow or dull or one dimensional or somehow not being a "citizen of the world."
Certainly, some threads start out talking about rangefunders and wander far afield. That's to be expected. What I can't understand is why some individuals seem to think they have a duty to enlighten us or stimulate us or whatever, on controversial topics outside photography. And if those threads run their course of are deleted these people seem to insist on starting another off topic telling us why it is important that they be allowed to enlighten and/or stimulate us mentally.
As I have stated before, if I want to debate politics or world affairs, I will go to sites that specialize in those subjects. And I don't appreciate it when someone suggests that because I would rather stick to photography subjects I am shallow or dull or one dimensional or somehow not being a "citizen of the world."
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bmattock
Veteran
Roger Hicks said:
Roger,
I'm so simple, I'm complicated.
But the beer is calling, and Joe hath spoken.
Peace Out,
Bill Mattocks
aizan
Veteran
does anyone know of a general discussion forum whose participants are mostly photographers? i know there are things like this for graphic design and stuff.
Uncle Bill
Well-known
Here is my weigh in on this subject. I have seen some flame wars on another site that is devoted to another hobby I hold dear: collecting fountain pens. What I love about this site is the international nature of the membership. Everyone will have a differentview of the world because we grew up in different countries. I don't mind the off topic conversations be it SLR photography I am coming out, saying yes I play with Pentax Spotmatics, Nikon F and Nikkormat Ftn, and I am ok about that and I hope you accept me for playing both sides of the street. Politically there are no right answers only different opinions, as long as we can respect those opinions as adults, its cool with me. However lets keep the conversation closer to photography. My two Canadian Cents on the issue.
Bill
Bill
FrankS
Registered User
Doug said:
I agree whole-heartedly with what Doug said here.
As I have said before, let's stick to the topics which unite us, not those which, because of their deeply held nature (religion, politics), may divide us.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
kiev4a said:
ballfresno
Established
Roger Hicks said:
It's called focus. I have only limited time for my hobbies. When I sit down in front of the computer to read and "talk" about cameras and photography, that's what I want to do. RFF has a large enough volume of discourse that just figuring out which threads to read and which to ignore (based on my own interests) takes a significant amount of time without adding in completely OT threads.
If I want political debate, and I do sometimes, I go elsewhere (online, radio, decent UK newspapers, etc).
Outdooreyes.com recently had a political spat which has left a slightly bitter taste. Let's avoid that here please!
My 2 pence worth.
cheers,
eric