John B
Newbie
Hello all,
I'm a new member. I've read a bunch of threads on this forum and you all have been very helpful. I hope I'm posting in the right forum. Like many other people, I've decided to join the ranks of the folder fans. I'm a strictly amateur photographer whose only other MF is a Holga. The more I look for cameras, the more confused I become in trying to figure out what I'd like to buy.
I like the idea of an older camera/lens because I'm not really interested in crystal-clear pictures like I can get from a digital camera. To me, pictures taken with folders have a "warmer" feeling to them. I've thought about 6X6 vs. 6X9, and I'm 95% sure I want to go to the 6X9 format. I figure 6X9 is easier to edit into a 6:8 format (or into a 6X6 format). Although I definitely enjoy the look of a 6X6 shot (that's the 5%).
Coupled vs. noncoupled vs. no rangefinder
I'm not a good estimator of distance. Both cameras I've got right now (the Holga and a Horizon panoramic) have fixed focus lenses - enough for "good enough" focusing.
Coupled rangefinder: Fairly straightforward focusing, assuming RF is calibrated.
No rangefinder/noncoupled rangefinder: how close will close enough be? I'm used to SLR-type focusing, which in my experience gives a pretty sharp picture. If I guess my subject is 6 feet away, but they're 10 feet away, I'm guessing I'll be way past the "soft focus" look, into blurry. In your experience, how "off" is acceptable to you? How many of you use no rangefinder, or uncoupled/add-on rangefinder, and what limitations are you willing to accept?
Coated vs. non-coated lenses: In general, it appears that noncoated = use a lens hood. Is an amateur like me likely to notice much of a difference between coated and uncoated lenses?
Flash vs. non-flash: I just realized that none of the pre-war lenses have flash sync. My initial thought is that I want a camera that I can use with a flash. Although I don't necessarily know when I would use the camera where a flash would be appropriate, it's nice to think that just in case I needed it the ability would be there. How many of you use flashes with your folders? If so, do you insist on a camera with an accessory shoe or do you add something like a flash bracket?
* * * * * * * * * *
So in summary here are the questions I asked:
1. How many of you use no rangefinder, or uncoupled/add-on rangefinder, and what limitations are you willing to accept?
2. Is an amateur like me likely to notice much of a difference between coated and uncoated lenses?
3. How many of you use flashes with your folders? If so, do you insist on a camera with an accessory shoe or do you add something like a flash bracket?
* * * * * * * * * *
My inital thoughts are that I want a 6X9 with a coupled rangefinder and a postwar lens/shutter with flash sync. But when I start adding up those options the cameras get more and more expensive - and harder and harder to justify the cost. I'd like to think I'd be happy with the streamlined appeal of the no (or uncoupled) rangefinder cameras, but there's still that part of me that thinks my limitations, rather than the camera's limitations, will severely limit my enjoyment.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
John B
I'm a new member. I've read a bunch of threads on this forum and you all have been very helpful. I hope I'm posting in the right forum. Like many other people, I've decided to join the ranks of the folder fans. I'm a strictly amateur photographer whose only other MF is a Holga. The more I look for cameras, the more confused I become in trying to figure out what I'd like to buy.
I like the idea of an older camera/lens because I'm not really interested in crystal-clear pictures like I can get from a digital camera. To me, pictures taken with folders have a "warmer" feeling to them. I've thought about 6X6 vs. 6X9, and I'm 95% sure I want to go to the 6X9 format. I figure 6X9 is easier to edit into a 6:8 format (or into a 6X6 format). Although I definitely enjoy the look of a 6X6 shot (that's the 5%).
Coupled vs. noncoupled vs. no rangefinder
I'm not a good estimator of distance. Both cameras I've got right now (the Holga and a Horizon panoramic) have fixed focus lenses - enough for "good enough" focusing.
Coupled rangefinder: Fairly straightforward focusing, assuming RF is calibrated.
No rangefinder/noncoupled rangefinder: how close will close enough be? I'm used to SLR-type focusing, which in my experience gives a pretty sharp picture. If I guess my subject is 6 feet away, but they're 10 feet away, I'm guessing I'll be way past the "soft focus" look, into blurry. In your experience, how "off" is acceptable to you? How many of you use no rangefinder, or uncoupled/add-on rangefinder, and what limitations are you willing to accept?
Coated vs. non-coated lenses: In general, it appears that noncoated = use a lens hood. Is an amateur like me likely to notice much of a difference between coated and uncoated lenses?
Flash vs. non-flash: I just realized that none of the pre-war lenses have flash sync. My initial thought is that I want a camera that I can use with a flash. Although I don't necessarily know when I would use the camera where a flash would be appropriate, it's nice to think that just in case I needed it the ability would be there. How many of you use flashes with your folders? If so, do you insist on a camera with an accessory shoe or do you add something like a flash bracket?
* * * * * * * * * *
So in summary here are the questions I asked:
1. How many of you use no rangefinder, or uncoupled/add-on rangefinder, and what limitations are you willing to accept?
2. Is an amateur like me likely to notice much of a difference between coated and uncoated lenses?
3. How many of you use flashes with your folders? If so, do you insist on a camera with an accessory shoe or do you add something like a flash bracket?
* * * * * * * * * *
My inital thoughts are that I want a 6X9 with a coupled rangefinder and a postwar lens/shutter with flash sync. But when I start adding up those options the cameras get more and more expensive - and harder and harder to justify the cost. I'd like to think I'd be happy with the streamlined appeal of the no (or uncoupled) rangefinder cameras, but there's still that part of me that thinks my limitations, rather than the camera's limitations, will severely limit my enjoyment.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
John B
R
Richard Black
Guest
John B,
Welcome, you'll find a lot of helpful hints here. I use three old folders, Fuji GS 645, Moskva V, and a Agfa Isolette. Two have rangefinders and the Agfa doesn't, but I do have an auxillary rangefinder that works wonders. I can't tell you much about the coatings and the impact of them. I like them all. The Agfa is the lightest and most basic to use. I have had some great photos with it. As to flashes, they are all leaf shutters and sync at any speed. I don't use the flashes on these, however.
Welcome, you'll find a lot of helpful hints here. I use three old folders, Fuji GS 645, Moskva V, and a Agfa Isolette. Two have rangefinders and the Agfa doesn't, but I do have an auxillary rangefinder that works wonders. I can't tell you much about the coatings and the impact of them. I like them all. The Agfa is the lightest and most basic to use. I have had some great photos with it. As to flashes, they are all leaf shutters and sync at any speed. I don't use the flashes on these, however.
clarence
ダメ
Welcome to the forum, John. I'll attempt to answer some of your questions with my experience with MF folders:
1. I started out with a scale focus, folding 6x6 camera. It was difficult focusing on close objects unless one carried a tape measure around. Similarly, your Holga and Horizon may satisfy you when you're focusing at infinity, but trying to focus on anything nearer than about 7 metres often requires use of a small aperture to compensate for focusing inaccuracy.
Bear in mind that this can be difficult on a medium format camera, as the typical focal length of the lens (75mm-80mm), necessitates using a shutter speed of 1/75 and above if you are not using some form of support (like a tripod) and you do not have the arms of a sniper (or an experienced photographer, for that matter).
So one is faced with the options of purchasing faster film or using an accessory rangefinder that can be mounted on the shoe. The latter choice would be similar to acquiring a camera with an uncoupled rangefinder. The problem I encountered was that distance markings on lenses are not quite up to the task of focusing at close range. Depth of field at close ranges, with a 75mm lens at an aperture of about f/3 is considerably shallow, and there are not quite enough distance markings on a lens barrel to help you. One solution is to focus at a distance clearly indicated on the lens barrel, and then to move your body towards or away from the subject until that distance is achieved.
Of course, you could avoid all this grief by just using a coupled rangefinder.
The Moskva-5 would be ideal for you since it's 6x9, with the option of using a 6x6 mask.
2. There are huge controversies about the benefits of coatings, but the general consensus is that coated lenses provide more flare resistance than uncoated lenses. You will not notice this unless you are shooting in the direction of the sun or another bright point source of light.
3. I have used a Vivitar 285 with my folding 6x6. Due to the size of the flash unit, I either mounted it on the cold shoe or a simple bracket and connected it via pc sync. These days I use a much smaller Nikon SB-30, and I usually hold it in one hand and the camera in the other.
If you are set on the 6x9 format I would recommend the Moskva-5. It is the most affordable 6x9 with a coupled rangefinder.
Clarence
1. I started out with a scale focus, folding 6x6 camera. It was difficult focusing on close objects unless one carried a tape measure around. Similarly, your Holga and Horizon may satisfy you when you're focusing at infinity, but trying to focus on anything nearer than about 7 metres often requires use of a small aperture to compensate for focusing inaccuracy.
Bear in mind that this can be difficult on a medium format camera, as the typical focal length of the lens (75mm-80mm), necessitates using a shutter speed of 1/75 and above if you are not using some form of support (like a tripod) and you do not have the arms of a sniper (or an experienced photographer, for that matter).
So one is faced with the options of purchasing faster film or using an accessory rangefinder that can be mounted on the shoe. The latter choice would be similar to acquiring a camera with an uncoupled rangefinder. The problem I encountered was that distance markings on lenses are not quite up to the task of focusing at close range. Depth of field at close ranges, with a 75mm lens at an aperture of about f/3 is considerably shallow, and there are not quite enough distance markings on a lens barrel to help you. One solution is to focus at a distance clearly indicated on the lens barrel, and then to move your body towards or away from the subject until that distance is achieved.
Of course, you could avoid all this grief by just using a coupled rangefinder.
The Moskva-5 would be ideal for you since it's 6x9, with the option of using a 6x6 mask.
2. There are huge controversies about the benefits of coatings, but the general consensus is that coated lenses provide more flare resistance than uncoated lenses. You will not notice this unless you are shooting in the direction of the sun or another bright point source of light.
3. I have used a Vivitar 285 with my folding 6x6. Due to the size of the flash unit, I either mounted it on the cold shoe or a simple bracket and connected it via pc sync. These days I use a much smaller Nikon SB-30, and I usually hold it in one hand and the camera in the other.
If you are set on the 6x9 format I would recommend the Moskva-5. It is the most affordable 6x9 with a coupled rangefinder.
Clarence
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Kragmeister
Greg Urban
I had two folders with coupled rangefinders. My most recent was Fujica GS645 with f3.4 75mm lens. Reason I parted with it is because it is TOO sharp for my taste. Almost clinical really. However, after learning to live with it's quirks it was a first rate piece of equipment, and I loved the viewfinder with honest to goodness parallax compensation.
The one I had previous to this was a pre-WWII Zeiss Super Ikonta B. I loved that uncoated f2.8 80mm Tessar. It wasn't great for color but it was terrific for B&W, especially with a lens hood to cut flare. I foolishly sold it as I needed cash. I recently bought a replacement, but it is a project camera and needs TLC before I can load film and take it out.
Later,
Greg
The one I had previous to this was a pre-WWII Zeiss Super Ikonta B. I loved that uncoated f2.8 80mm Tessar. It wasn't great for color but it was terrific for B&W, especially with a lens hood to cut flare. I foolishly sold it as I needed cash. I recently bought a replacement, but it is a project camera and needs TLC before I can load film and take it out.
Later,
Greg
John B
Newbie
Thanks
Thanks
Thanks for your help...
If I was going to go for a Moskva, would I be alright buying on of the "in the box" ones for sale on eBay (through the Ukraine), or should I play it safe and buy through a reconditioner like www.certo6.com?
Thanks
Thanks for your help...
If I was going to go for a Moskva, would I be alright buying on of the "in the box" ones for sale on eBay (through the Ukraine), or should I play it safe and buy through a reconditioner like www.certo6.com?
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Go to www.fedka.com/catalog instead. Excellent customer service, more certainty than the Ukrainian sellers & probably cheaper than Certo6. Check him out - he is by far my most prefered vendor of FSU gear.
And if you get the Moskva, be sure to get a 5 & make sure the mask is with it. It really shoots 6x6 quite well.
William
And if you get the Moskva, be sure to get a 5 & make sure the mask is with it. It really shoots 6x6 quite well.
William
R
Richard Black
Guest
I have successfully bought from Rusfoto and Oleg in Russia. But for the best I second Fedka.
Buze
Established
I use folders quite a lot, as my signature will tell..
The coupled rangefinder makes life a LOT easier. It's not a mandatory piece of equipment but is very, very useful since 6x6 and 6x9 have quite a smaller DoF compared to 35mm..
For coating & flare, you have to remember that these old triplets or (if you are lucky) tessar formulaes are simple in construction, they are inherently not very prone to flare to start with... And they don't flare like "modern" lens, they flare in a "glowing" way that I particularily enjoy ; in fact I find myself shooting into the light just for the fun of it. You lose some local contrast, but you keep enough to make the photo interesting.
So I would say coating is nice to have, but not stricly mandatory...
Flash sync : I don't care about flash. An old folder is even more stable to shoot than a Leica since it uses on-lens circular shutter; you can easily shoot at 1/15s and still be sharp (if you are careful of course)
To conclude I think the best bang/buck on folderland are the Maksva and Iskras; if you are lucky to get one in good condition, you will get a "modern" folder with all the gizmos you might like, are a reasonable price..
The coupled rangefinder makes life a LOT easier. It's not a mandatory piece of equipment but is very, very useful since 6x6 and 6x9 have quite a smaller DoF compared to 35mm..
For coating & flare, you have to remember that these old triplets or (if you are lucky) tessar formulaes are simple in construction, they are inherently not very prone to flare to start with... And they don't flare like "modern" lens, they flare in a "glowing" way that I particularily enjoy ; in fact I find myself shooting into the light just for the fun of it. You lose some local contrast, but you keep enough to make the photo interesting.
So I would say coating is nice to have, but not stricly mandatory...
Flash sync : I don't care about flash. An old folder is even more stable to shoot than a Leica since it uses on-lens circular shutter; you can easily shoot at 1/15s and still be sharp (if you are careful of course)
To conclude I think the best bang/buck on folderland are the Maksva and Iskras; if you are lucky to get one in good condition, you will get a "modern" folder with all the gizmos you might like, are a reasonable price..
phototone
Well-known
John B said:
Most simple folding cameras that have a focusing lens have a "pan-focal" setting that allows you to shoot just as if the camera were a "fixed focus" camera, yet giving you superior quality to a "fixed focus" due to a better lens design. If you are shooting at f16 or so, you can be off by quite a few feet and still get tack sharp photos. Your distance estimating will improve with practice, also.
Another thing to remember is that a camera that shoots a large negative, such as a 6x8 or 6x9 or 6x12 does not have to be enlarged as much for a given print size as compared to a 35mm negative, therefore slight errors in focusing are not as obvious in the final print. (or digital file).
If I were you, and you had the opportunity to purchase a "guess focus" type of camera at a very good economical price, I wouldn't worry about the issue of focusing, as you do not have to be "spot" on, for daylight shots.
Mister_Hat
Established
If you're serious about an FSU folder, I'll echo Richard and William and recommend Fedka. A lot of us have bought from Yuri and he really goes the extra mile to make you a satisfied customer.
For cameras, the Moskva-5 in 6X9 is nice... I crop the negative with my 6X6 negative holder, and the contact prints are about wallet size. The Iskra is great in 6X6, but more expensive and harder to find a good working model.
For cameras, the Moskva-5 in 6X9 is nice... I crop the negative with my 6X6 negative holder, and the contact prints are about wallet size. The Iskra is great in 6X6, but more expensive and harder to find a good working model.
Krosya
Konicaze
Well, I too have several folder and like to use them. As you want to have a 6x9 - you limit yourself to few if you want a coupled Rf, but those few are very good. While Moskva is a good camera - when it works, I would suggest a Voigtlander Bessa. I have one, older, black version with Skopar lens. It's not coated but I have many pictures to prove that it works very well and delivers nice results. It was a top of the line back in it's time and can still hold it's own. There are newer Bessa II folders that are probably better, with coated Colour-Skopar, or even better Heliar but they are very rare and very expensive. More like collectors items. If I were you I would go for a coupled rangefinder 6x6 folder. There are a lot more of them, usually they are cheaper and can still deliver great results. Iskra, Welta, Balda - just to name a few. where to buy? - well ebay is always a good place to start, but you never know what you get unless you get one from a reputable place. If you are handy - CLA on folders is not that difficult. For some ideas and and to learn weaknesses - look at www.certo6.com, read descriptions and see what folders are prone to what problems. From what I heard - he is a reputable seller of those too, but I have never used him and I also read some negative things about him. So, all at your own risk. But if you get a good folder - they are fun to use. I never use flash with mine - mostly cause I have a Hassy to do that with. Folders are just - put in your pocket kinda cameras. Here are a couple of pics taken with folders - 1st - Voigtlander 6x9, than Welta 6x6. See them full size.
George
George
