Old SM Nazi Leica

I'd interpret that as the seller knowing or at least assuming it is fake, as genuine gold plated luxury Leicas go for roughly fifty times that amount, and people attempting to sell a item they value at 8000€ will certainly google for prices (where prices in the order of half a million would not have escaped his attention)...
 
Don't know, I'm not a SM expert. Original price was 12000€ Recently I've seen a BMW Afrika Korps (the real McCoy) that was confiscated by the spanish government.
 
rlouzan said:
Franco was a fascist.
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Franco was a francoist.

Fascism is a concept which is very specific to Mussolini's regime.

Historical facts and what people do believe in are often very different. Let's try to name a cat, a cat, even when it comes to horrible things very similar to each other.
 
Highway 61 said:
Franco was a franquist.

Fascism is a concept which is very specific to Mussolini's regime.

Historical facts and what people do believe in are often very different. Let's try to name a cat, a cat, even when it comes to horrible things very similar to each other.
Click to expand...
That is the same as saying Mao was Maoist, Stalin was Lenin-Stalinist, In stead of Communist. In political theory Fascism is a political system like Communism, Liberalism etcetera. One can argue that Franco wasn't a "true" fascist because he didn't lead a popular movement like Mussolini and Hitler, as in political theory that populism usually is considered one of the defining bits of Fascism. In other respects the Franquist system was Fascist.

As usual, nothing is as simple as it seems. Let's call a cat a cat, even if that cat is a Persian cat 😉
 
Addy101 said:
In other respects the Franquist system was Fascist.
Click to expand...
Franco came to power after his military "pronuciamento" and three years of terrible civil war. Once settled, the regime was a basic military dictature, helped by the Spanish church and the Guardia Civil. Calling it "fascist" is too much of an honor for all those murderers and corrupted people who were at the head of the country. All things equal, Mussolini had had a (nasty) political project and an (insane) global vision of how Italy could re-install the glory of the Roman empire, and have a leadership of some sort in Europe and in the colonies...

If we compare - and this kind of comparison is of course stupid - we could say that Franco's regime was nothing more than Pinochet's or Videla's ones were. The only difference is in its lasting (1939-1977).

People wanting to understand what the franquism was have to watch "Ana y los lobos" by Carlos Saura (1971).

Back to the topic : the camera is indeed a Zorki. What a surprise ! Olé ! 😀
 
I'm half spanish and lived through the las years of "la dictadura", and I find it amusing that you tell me that Franco wasn't a fascist.
 
rlouzan said:
I'm half spanish and lived through the las years of "la dictadura", and I find it amusing that you tell me that Franco wasn't a fascist.
Click to expand...

No he wasn't. The regime was different from the one of Mussolini. Of course, the phalangist groups of the five two years did resemble the Italian fascist units a lot. Yet they got promptly discarded in favor of ultra-catholic and conservative people being around Franco. The regime was a national-catholic dictature, with no global vision.

This doesn't mean it was not terrible. It was really terrible. Three years of civil war first, then 38 years of dictature and repression.

But, let's be precise. Specially now that some nasty nationalisms are merging everywhere and in Europe too.

The fascism and the nazism were some true (sick and criminal) ideologies. The francoism wasn't anything but some negativism about everything.
 
Can't agree with you. Also the current european nationalist problem, is different than the separatist Basque and catalan movemets.
 
rlouzan said:
Can't agree with you. Also the current european nationalist problem, is different than the separatist Basque and catalan movemets.
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What is a 100% tangible fact is that the "nazi Leica" the Spanish TV stupidly displayed is a fake made off a Zorki.

So, nobody offered that thing to no ministry of no dictator ever.
 
I'm not sure if this forum is the best place for historic debate... so my apologies...

Usually 'fascist' is a common pejorative term used to describe any right extremist (or not so extremist) person if he is nasty enough.
To be historically accurate, a fascist movement is anti-conservative (Franco was not), anti-clerical (Franco was definetly not), anti-capitalist (Franco surely not), and anti-liberal (Franco not much). Franco's Regime was much more similar to an absolute monarchy (without a king) than a fascist regime. At the end, he passed the power to a king. This absolutely not very fascist! Ironically he claimed to be fascist for a long time, but it was a pose -he seized the falangist (fascist movement)- just to pretend he lead a modern revolutionary mass movement. Real pre-war falangists (like my Grandpa) hated him for being an usurpator. His league was more like the argentinian dictators, Pinochet, or Chiang Kai Shek, which can hardly be called fascists. Now let's talk about cams.
 
Highway 61 said:
Franco was a franquist.

Fascism is a concept which is very specific to Mussolini's regime.

Historical facts and what people do believe in are often very different. Let's try to name a cat, a cat, even when it comes to horrible things very similar to each other.
Click to expand...

Yes, fascism was a term invented by the Italians (based on an old Roman symbol of the fasces), but it has become the general term for authoritarian nationalist regimes of the right. Nazi, on the other hand, is specific to Germany.
 
monkeypainter said:
I'm not sure if this forum is the best place for historic debate... so my apologies...

Usually 'fascist' is a common pejorative term used to describe any right extremist (or not so extremist) person if he is nasty enough.
To be historically accurate, a fascist movement is anti-conservative (Franco was not), anti-clerical (Franco was definetly not), anti-capitalist (Franco surely not), and anti-liberal (Franco not much). Franco's Regime was much more similar to an absolute monarchy (without a king) than a fascist regime. At the end, he passed the power to a king. This absolutely not very fascist! Ironically he claimed to be fascist for a long time, but it was a pose -he seized the falangist (fascist movement)- just to pretend he lead a modern revolutionary mass movement. Real pre-war falangists (like my Grandpa) hated him for being an usurpator. His league was more like the argentinian dictators, Pinochet, or Chiang Kai Shek, which can hardly be called fascists. Now let's talk about cams.
Click to expand...

All fascist regimes - even Hitler's - contain "conservative" (established institutional) and radical (anti-establishment) elements. The balance from country to country differs between the two. Not disputing what you say specifically about Franco. Unlike Mussolini he was careful and smart enough to keep the Spanish out of the war; like Peron in Argentina Franco concentrated on economic self-sufficiency.
 
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