Olympus wide- s loose front viewfinder glass

[twright24]

Just got a new to me Olympus wide-s in fantastic mechanical condition. The front glass is a little loose. I guess on these cameras, it’s all one piece for the viewfinder, rangefinder window, and frame line luminance patch. It isn’t going to fall out, but the entire glass moves from side to side in the camera. Is it safe to epoxy the glass back in place?

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I wouldn't, personally. Epoxy certainly has its uses in camera repair. But if the optics require cleaning, you may have made it harder to access the internal surfaces. I have not worked on this particular model so cannot be definitive. But during the period this camera was manufactured various assembly methods were used by rangefinder makers. In some cases, the front glass would be attached to the top cover and on disassembly would lift off with the cover. Alternatively, the glass would not be positively secured at all and would simply be an interference fit between the viewfinder housing and cover. (This was more common than one might expect and not just from Japanese manufacturers). If the glass is loose what is the condition of the top cover like? Any indications it has been deformed?

Epoxy is not a bad choice of adhesive for camera finder optics in some cases. It does not outgas and once cured will hold parts securely for a long time. If I need to replace a beam splitter, for example, or fasten a mirror to its perch I'll often use small spots of strategically placed epoxy. But these are generally parts that do not impede access to other internal air to glass surfaces (or, if they do, these surfaces have just been cleaned, and will not need to be revisited for many years). Case in point—a Werra I recently looked at had serviceable optics, but still received some epoxy to a couple of points, because the alcohol I used to clean them can sometimes have a detrimental effect on adhesives originally used to secure them, which, if you're unlucky, might otherwise lead to a part subsequently detaching.

If on the other hand the finder optics of your Olympus have never been cleaned since manufacture, they would probably benefit from it. Epoxying the glass in place may then require acetone to dissolve the bond, in order to reach the front (non-reflective) side of the beam splitter or prism (as the case may be) for cleaning.

Just on the basis of your image it looks to me the glass should not stay with the top cover on removal? In which case the cover fit is either a little loose, permitting the glass to move slightly, or the glass has come loose from where it was attached to the finder. If this was my camera, I would be removing the top cover and fully cleaning the finder optics to improve the view and patch contrast, and address the front glass after cleaning. Assuming you just want to use it, if the glass is actually rattling around, a very small smear of black contact adhesive to the edge or edges of the glass may be a better option? But you should take care, because applying excessive adhesive may see it contaminate the rear of the glass, in which case disassembly would be essential to clean it off.

If the glass on being touched has some slight movement but does not actually rattle around, quite honestly, I'd leave it be. Yes, if the fit is a bit loose, it may be permitting more dust, moisture to enter the body than is desirable. But, if the camera has not been serviced for a few decades, the optics would be due for cleaning, anyway, in which case...how much difference will it really make, until this is done?

 

[nikon_sam]

I have several Olympus 35-S bodies and if I recall that one piece of glass is glued in place...someone, somewhere was overly aggressive in cleaning the glass. I'm very careful when cleaning the front windows and try not to push in too much.
When you remove the top cover the glass should come with it...be careful not to drop it and watch for washers/spacers that could fall out at the film advance and rewind knob, the shutter button and rod may also fall out.

 

[twright24]

I wouldn't, personally. Epoxy certainly has its uses in camera repair. But if the optics require cleaning, you may have made it harder to access the internal surfaces. I have not worked on this particular model so cannot be definitive. But during the period this camera was manufactured various assembly methods were used by rangefinder makers. In some cases, the front glass would be attached to the top cover and on disassembly would lift off with the cover. Alternatively, the glass would not be positively secured at all and would simply be an interference fit between the viewfinder housing and cover. (This was more common than one might expect and not just from Japanese manufacturers). If the glass is loose what is the condition of the top cover like? Any indications it has been deformed?

Epoxy is not a bad choice of adhesive for camera finder optics in some cases. It does not outgas and once cured will hold parts securely for a long time. If I need to replace a beam splitter, for example, or fasten a mirror to its perch I'll often use small spots of strategically placed epoxy. But these are generally parts that do not impede access to other internal air to glass surfaces (or, if they do, these surfaces have just been cleaned, and will not need to be revisited for many years). Case in point—a Werra I recently looked at had serviceable optics, but still received some epoxy to a couple of points, because the alcohol I used to clean them can sometimes have a detrimental effect on adhesives originally used to secure them, which, if you're unlucky, might otherwise lead to a part subsequently detaching.

If on the other hand the finder optics of your Olympus have never been cleaned since manufacture, they would probably benefit from it. Epoxying the glass in place may then require acetone to dissolve the bond, in order to reach the front (non-reflective) side of the beam splitter or prism (as the case may be) for cleaning.

Just on the basis of your image it looks to me the glass should not stay with the top cover on removal? In which case the cover fit is either a little loose, permitting the glass to move slightly, or the glass has come loose from where it was attached to the finder. If this was my camera, I would be removing the top cover and fully cleaning the finder optics to improve the view and patch contrast, and address the front glass after cleaning. Assuming you just want to use it, if the glass is actually rattling around, a very small smear of black contact adhesive to the edge or edges of the glass may be a better option? But you should take care, because applying excessive adhesive may see it contaminate the rear of the glass, in which case disassembly would be essential to clean it off.

If the glass on being touched has some slight movement but does not actually rattle around, quite honestly, I'd leave it be. Yes, if the fit is a bit loose, it may be permitting more dust, moisture to enter the body than is desirable. But, if the camera has not been serviced for a few decades, the optics would be due for cleaning, anyway, in which case...how much difference will it really make, until this is done?

Definitely was going to pop the top plate off to give the front glass a nice clean before doing anything else. The glass moves around a decent bit, which is making the patch move around with it. Will update later tonight when I have some time to disassemble. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[twright24]

I have several Olympus 35-S bodies and if I recall that one piece of glass is glued in place...someone, somewhere was overly aggressive in cleaning the glass. I'm very careful when cleaning the front windows and try not to push in too much.
When you remove the top cover the glass should come with it...be careful not to drop it and watch for washers/spacers that could fall out at the film advance and rewind knob, the shutter button and rod may also fall out.

I suspect you’re 100% correct. There are some cleaning marks on the glass, so I’m guessing someone was too vigorous with it. Can you recall if the glue was on the top of the glass or on the viewfinder side? Thanks a bunch for your help. I’ve wanted one of these for a while, and am more than happy to do any preventative maintenance to keep it running for 50 more years. While I’ve got you, do you happen to know how to remove the rear viewfinder glass? Does the plastic bevel just pop off, or is that something else that I should get at with the top plate removed? There is a small crack in the glass. Not a super big deal, but you have to have your eye in the right place to not have the crack obscure your view.

 

[twright24]

I wouldn't, personally. Epoxy certainly has its uses in camera repair. But if the optics require cleaning, you may have made it harder to access the internal surfaces. I have not worked on this particular model so cannot be definitive. But during the period this camera was manufactured various assembly methods were used by rangefinder makers. In some cases, the front glass would be attached to the top cover and on disassembly would lift off with the cover. Alternatively, the glass would not be positively secured at all and would simply be an interference fit between the viewfinder housing and cover. (This was more common than one might expect and not just from Japanese manufacturers). If the glass is loose what is the condition of the top cover like? Any indications it has been deformed?

Epoxy is not a bad choice of adhesive for camera finder optics in some cases. It does not outgas and once cured will hold parts securely for a long time. If I need to replace a beam splitter, for example, or fasten a mirror to its perch I'll often use small spots of strategically placed epoxy. But these are generally parts that do not impede access to other internal air to glass surfaces (or, if they do, these surfaces have just been cleaned, and will not need to be revisited for many years). Case in point—a Werra I recently looked at had serviceable optics, but still received some epoxy to a couple of points, because the alcohol I used to clean them can sometimes have a detrimental effect on adhesives originally used to secure them, which, if you're unlucky, might otherwise lead to a part subsequently detaching.

If on the other hand the finder optics of your Olympus have never been cleaned since manufacture, they would probably benefit from it. Epoxying the glass in place may then require acetone to dissolve the bond, in order to reach the front (non-reflective) side of the beam splitter or prism (as the case may be) for cleaning.

Just on the basis of your image it looks to me the glass should not stay with the top cover on removal? In which case the cover fit is either a little loose, permitting the glass to move slightly, or the glass has come loose from where it was attached to the finder. If this was my camera, I would be removing the top cover and fully cleaning the finder optics to improve the view and patch contrast, and address the front glass after cleaning. Assuming you just want to use it, if the glass is actually rattling around, a very small smear of black contact adhesive to the edge or edges of the glass may be a better option? But you should take care, because applying excessive adhesive may see it contaminate the rear of the glass, in which case disassembly would be essential to clean it off.

If the glass on being touched has some slight movement but does not actually rattle around, quite honestly, I'd leave it be. Yes, if the fit is a bit loose, it may be permitting more dust, moisture to enter the body than is desirable. But, if the camera has not been serviced for a few decades, the optics would be due for cleaning, anyway, in which case...how much difference will it really make, until this is done?

Top plate appears to be in fantastic shape

 

[nikon_sam]

twright24,

There is a black metal frame that holds the front glass...not sure if you can use that to secure it in place but when remove the top you'll see where they glued it all in place.
The rear piece is held in by two tiny screws inside, if you like I have a 35-S (that could use a whole new top plate, front glass missing and loose flash shoe) that has a decent rear piece I could send your way.

 

[twright24]

twright24,

There is a black metal frame that holds the front glass...not sure if you can use that to secure it in place but when remove the top you'll see where they glued it all in place.
The rear piece is held in by two tiny screws inside, if you like I have a 35-S (that could use a whole new top plate, front glass missing and loose flash shoe) that has a decent rear piece I could send your way.

Will absolutely take you up on that. I’m trying to get some extra parts stockpiled just in case something comes up!

 

[nikon_sam]

Will absolutely take you up on that. I’m trying to get some extra parts stockpiled just in case something comes up!

PM me your info

Sam

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

twright24,

There is a black metal frame that holds the front glass...not sure if you can use that to secure it in place but when remove the top you'll see where they glued it all in place.
The rear piece is held in by two tiny screws inside, if you like I have a 35-S (that could use a whole new top plate, front glass missing and loose flash shoe) that has a decent rear piece I could send your way.

Good on you Sam, for helping out with parts. You're very kind.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Top plate appears to be in fantastic shape

Assuming, as has been suggested, the glass should be affixed to the cover itself with a mounting frame, to get back to your original query, yes, epoxy will be fine for this. Not much is needed, obviously, but it is a safe and long lasting choice of adhesive, unlike, for example, cyanoacrylate (super glue) which may do a very satisfactory job of actually securing internal parts, but can also be catastrophic to any interior glass surfaces due to its proclivity to outgas and deposit residues. Gluing the glass or its frame to the cover with epoxy will not be problematic. On removal of the cover, obviously, the air to glass surfaces will be accessible.

I suspect Sam may be able to inform whether the Wide S uses a composite prism (Ie similar to Leica M with two glass pieces cemented together to form a prism, one cemented surface being coated to reflect a rangefinder image) or a simple sheet of optical glass at a 45 degree angle with coated rear surface (as used in the screw mount Leica rangefinders and many other types of rangefinder). I've had a very quick search on Google and couldn't establish which is fitted.

You probably know this, but if a prism is fitted the microns thin reflective coating is protected from atmospheric or other contaminants by virtue of being inside the cemented joint of the two prism pieces. It's therefore safe to gently wipe clean both the front surface of the prism (Ie "lens" side) as well as the rear surface (eyepiece, or "film" side) with lens cleaner and/or isopropyl (although don't use too much, you don't want to wet the cemented joint and potentially encourage splitting).

On the other hand, if a sheet of beam splitter glass is used to reflect the focus patch (and I'd hazard a guess this is more likely than a prism, based on other early rangefinder Olympus models I have worked on) then, the lens side of the beam splitter may be gently wiped with impunity: it is merely optical grade glass which, whilst it might be coated, ought to be able to withstand limited gentle wiping with fluid and lens tissue.

The eyepiece side of the beam splitter on the other hand, is where the ultra thin layer of reflective coating has been applied, and unlike a prism this coating is unprotected and vulnerable to damage from mechanical cleaning. Best not to touch it. It's certainly true that some makers' reflective coatings are better able to withstand one or two cleaning wipes without degradation than others. But, unless one is absolutely certain no damage may result, it really is better not to directly touch the surface at all. In the worst case scenario, a single very gentle wipe with the softest cloth or tissue, (even moistened with inert demineralised water) might see the coating completely removed. Along with any semblance of a usable rangefinder image!

Personally I prefer to take a clean cotton tip, immerse it in alcohol or lens cleaner, and dab it on the top edge of the glass as required so the fluid dribbles down across the coating. Ie you are "washing" the coating but not actually touching it. This will usually obtain a decent improvement in brightness and patch contrast without harming the coating. You may cut and fold a small piece of lens tissue, which may be held at the bottom of the housing, in order to absorb the fluid flowing across the coating so that it is not distributed to other parts of the camera. Obviously, you are using small amounts of fluid in the first place, but if one is to obtain some improvement in cleanliness, inevitably, there will be a small amount of run off. By angling the camera appropriately, and absorbing the cleaning fluid, it is usually possible to brighten the finder and improve the patch without creating other complications in the process.

This is general advice obviously, the actual design and interior accessibility of various types of rangefinder units can differ greatly. In some instances, safely cleaning a beam splitter in situ will be a breeze, in others, removal of the rangefinder unit from the camera and partial disassembly may well be needed to do a thorough cleaning job. In the case of your Olympus, if the patch calibration is still factory accurate you might be tempted to clean the optics in situ if possible. On the other hand if the patch is obviously out at infinity and will need to be calibrated, you might well elect to take the unit off for cleaning. See how you go. (I'm always interested to see some internal images of a rangefinder I've not yet worked on, so feel free to share a few images with the cover off if you're inclined).
Cheers
Brett

 

[twright24]

Assuming, as has been suggested, the glass should be affixed to the cover itself with a mounting frame, to get back to your original query, yes, epoxy will be fine for this. Not much is needed, obviously, but it is a safe and long lasting choice of adhesive, unlike, for example, cyanoacrylate (super glue) which may do a very satisfactory job of actually securing internal parts, but can also be catastrophic to any interior glass surfaces due to its proclivity to outgas and deposit residues. Gluing the glass or its frame to the cover with epoxy will not be problematic. On removal of the cover, obviously, the air to glass surfaces will be accessible.

I suspect Sam may be able to inform whether the Wide S uses a composite prism (Ie similar to Leica M with two glass pieces cemented together to form a prism, one cemented surface being coated to reflect a rangefinder image) or a simple sheet of optical glass at a 45 degree angle with coated rear surface (as used in the screw mount Leica rangefinders and many other types of rangefinder). I've had a very quick search on Google and couldn't establish which is fitted.

You probably know this, but if a prism is fitted the microns thin reflective coating is protected from atmospheric or other contaminants by virtue of being inside the cemented joint of the two prism pieces. It's therefore safe to gently wipe clean both the front surface of the prism (Ie "lens" side) as well as the rear surface (eyepiece, or "film" side) with lens cleaner and/or isopropyl (although don't use too much, you don't want to wet the cemented joint and potentially encourage splitting).

On the other hand, if a sheet of beam splitter glass is used to reflect the focus patch (and I'd hazard a guess this is more likely than a prism, based on other early rangefinder Olympus models I have worked on) then, the lens side of the beam splitter may be gently wiped with impunity: it is merely optical grade glass which, whilst it might be coated, ought to be able to withstand limited gentle wiping with fluid and lens tissue.

The eyepiece side of the beam splitter on the other hand, is where the ultra thin layer of reflective coating has been applied, and unlike a prism this coating is unprotected and vulnerable to damage from mechanical cleaning. Best not to touch it. It's certainly true that some makers' reflective coatings are better able to withstand one or two cleaning wipes without degradation than others. But, unless one is absolutely certain no damage may result, it really is better not to directly touch the surface at all. In the worst case scenario, a single very gentle wipe with the softest cloth or tissue, (even moistened with inert demineralised water) might see the coating completely removed. Along with any semblance of a usable rangefinder image!

Personally I prefer to take a clean cotton tip, immerse it in alcohol or lens cleaner, and dab it on the top edge of the glass as required so the fluid dribbles down across the coating. Ie you are "washing" the coating but not actually touching it. This will usually obtain a decent improvement in brightness and patch contrast without harming the coating. You may cut and fold a small piece of lens tissue, which may be held at the bottom of the housing, in order to absorb the fluid flowing across the coating so that it is not distributed to other parts of the camera. Obviously, you are using small amounts of fluid in the first place, but if one is to obtain some improvement in cleanliness, inevitably, there will be a small amount of run off. By angling the camera appropriately, and absorbing the cleaning fluid, it is usually possible to brighten the finder and improve the patch without creating other complications in the process.

This is general advice obviously, the actual design and interior accessibility of various types of rangefinder units can differ greatly. In some instances, safely cleaning a beam splitter in situ will be a breeze, in others, removal of the rangefinder unit from the camera and partial disassembly may well be needed to do a thorough cleaning job. In the case of your Olympus, if the patch calibration is still factory accurate you might be tempted to clean the optics in situ if possible. On the other hand if the patch is obviously out at infinity and will need to be calibrated, you might well elect to take the unit off for cleaning. See how you go. (I'm always interested to see some internal images of a rangefinder I've not yet worked on, so feel free to share a few images with the cover off if you're inclined).
Cheers
Brett

Thank you for all of the wonderful tips! This was my first time cracking into a rangefinder, but the design of this one is super easy to grasp. I got some lo-res video of the top plate off. I’ll have to grab some stills from that. Got too excited and forgot to take photos! Put a roll through it this afternoon. I will post the scans when I get them back!

 

[twright24]

Got some scans back from the lab today. Super impressed with this lens! Couldn’t be more pleased with the Wide-S!

 

[farlymac]

Those look great. Glad you got the camera back together. Another glue you can use on finder windows is Weldbond. No gassing that I know of, and it dries clear so even if you accidentally get it on the open areas of the glass, you'd never know it a day later.

PF

 

[twright24]

Those look great. Glad you got the camera back together. Another glue you can use on finder windows is Weldbond. No gassing that I know of, and it dries clear so even if you accidentally get it on the open areas of the glass, you'd never know it a day later.

PF

Thanks so much! I will definitely put that on my list. After these repairs, I’m feeling a lot more confident to start tinkering with some other cameras.

 

[farlymac]

Thanks so much! I will definitely put that on my list. After these repairs, I’m feeling a lot more confident to start tinkering with some other cameras.

You're quite welcome. There are lots of folks on here with plenty of good tips for doing camera repair, so feel free to ask about anything. Lots of information already posted in previous threads too, so always look there first as you may find your answer a lot quicker.

PF