Frontman
Well-known
I love my OM4 (Ti). It is simply the best 35mm SLR I have ever owned, and my ownership list is pretty long (F, F2, F3, F4, FE, FA, A1, AE1, F1n, F1N, K1000, LX, SRT, SRT101, SRT Super, etc). I don't mind the scale metering, I would assume that it is necessary with the spot metering system, as each time you read a particular place, a mark appears on the scale at the corresponding shutter speed.
I use the spot meter constantly, I wish such a feature were made available on the pro-level DSLRs available today, but it isn't. I don't have to use the compensation dial for adjustments, I can simply use the spot feature on a brighter or darker part of the scene to decrease or increase exposure.
I got rid of my Canon and Nikon 35mm kits as they simply weren't as good as my OM kit. If I had to choose between my Leica gear and my OM4 kit, I would have to admit that the OM4 was much more practical and cost-effective.
I use the spot meter constantly, I wish such a feature were made available on the pro-level DSLRs available today, but it isn't. I don't have to use the compensation dial for adjustments, I can simply use the spot feature on a brighter or darker part of the scene to decrease or increase exposure.
I got rid of my Canon and Nikon 35mm kits as they simply weren't as good as my OM kit. If I had to choose between my Leica gear and my OM4 kit, I would have to admit that the OM4 was much more practical and cost-effective.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Too strong believe always makes blind, friend. Blind for all things except these one WANT to see. Some people reading here may inform you who I am.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Thanks for the - mostly! - friendly part of your comments.From a casual OM user, not a "believer":
But not take it too seriously...
My first OM camera was the OM-4. (...)
I'm currently working on a "OM page" for my website.
My Pen F page is one of the most referenced and googled on the Internet.
Different to "fan" or "believers" websites (which are 99 of 100) my interest is also, perhaps mainly, in historical facts. My focus is not at a brand, it's the whole industry. My attempt is to find kind of entertaining way to tell dry economic history and industrial design. As a outcome, not all of my findings are positive. And not all "fans" like all of them. A lot of German camera "fans" judge my website "negative". Well, the whole history went negative for the German camera industry, and it went negative for a reason. The shortest possible summary: wrong products, too late
There are good products, there are bad ones. There are even products who ruined the company they issued it. If you read through my website you may find cameras which I don't call just "odd" but really "disastrous" - some, of course, were absolutley great. About the OM-1, my judgement isn't complete.
Maitani-sensei said, vision comes first. Right vision - there is a small change for a good product (if everything else is right too). Wrong vision - wrong product right from the start.
Sometimes (rarely) it happens that a product will not gain the success it deserves - like it was the case with the PEN F (resistance of film industry was mainly the reason here). But mostly, the market reacts in a right way on a wrong product. And this was the case with the OM4. This camera faded the OM line away from a niche area to death. Ask Olympus why they don't made it better, or enhanced the design through so many years. So my judgement about the OM4 can't be better.
For people just liking that odd camera from personal use my judgement may be perfectly irrelevant. I wouldn't argue about that, but no reason to argue me.
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Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I don't care who you are. I'm not impressed by names, I look at actions.
Sonnar2
Well-known
So is talking about other persons what you call "actions" or what?
You may take good photos but miss some respect to other people.
Let's stop that because I don't want to talk with people who "don't care who I am". I care about people I discuss with. THIS makes ME happy here. Not gear babble with uninterested people missing good manners.
You may take good photos but miss some respect to other people.
Let's stop that because I don't want to talk with people who "don't care who I am". I care about people I discuss with. THIS makes ME happy here. Not gear babble with uninterested people missing good manners.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
You're absolutely right, I do not respect all people. I respect those deserving of it. You do not. You come here making sweeping generalizations that are untrue and then you talk down to those who call you on your lies. On top of that, you have so little personal honor that you don't sign your real name to your posts. I don't hide behind fake internet names. As far as manners, you have no right to judge mine given your behavior. Others have already pointed this out in both of the threads that you're trolling in.
Like I said before, if you think your OM system gear is the difficult to use, fungus infested crap that you claim it is, sell it and buy something you do like. Its really that simple.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
You're looking at quite a bit more if you accuse him of trolling, not owning any of the gear he's writing about, and possibly lifting pictures from other sites. That's already making quite a fair bit of assumptions on your part.
Now if we start with "looking at actions", that in particular is not a very nice action.
I know Frank from two other forums and I can assure you that he's doing nothing of that. If he says he doesn't like something about a camera, it's because he's tried it. Now if you get carried away to the point that you say he's "a fool" for using something "he despises", just because he's tried it, didn't like it, and writes that he didn't like it, I think you're getting carried away a bit too much for what is, in effect, just another camera.
V
varjag
Guest
Despite oft-claimed Zen-like qualities of OM line, Olympus people are so volatile
ibcz
Newbie
Actions is in the images one produces with the camera. I can understand your frustration about the OM-4. I believe english is not your mother tongue, so the way you commented on this camera could have been misunderstood through not understanding subtleties of the language.
What is strange is you are saying a camera is badly designed because of defects that come through age (the broken light) and battery consumption that was acknowledged & solved when serviced. The metering system is one of a kind and is liked by some people, may be disliked by other people. You can freely have an opinion, but stating the camera was badly designed because it does not fit your opinion is a very bold statement.
I didn't understand the metering at first. I used an OM-3 for a year and learned the metering system. For learning about light and relation between light levels the multi spot system is one of the most cleverly thought out visual displays. I think Edward Tufte would agree with me here. Now I can use it even without batteries, or my pen FV, because I don't really need a meter anymore in most situations. But that is only me and some good practice which is all that is needed to master anything.
I also really like the pen F system and use it a lot. But it is a badly designed camera as well, because the FT has only a half silvered mirror and thus dark finder (try to use that for focussing when it is dark) and the prism system is very badly sealed from dust, not to think of the clunky add-on meter for the pen FV or pen F. Adding flash, or an external meter like the VCII is a pain because of the lack of a hot shoe, as much as I like the clean lines of the design (and luckily I have the skills to replace the finder plastic if needed). So the lack of success of these fine cameras can also be partly attributed to their design.
By the way, when the batteries are dead in the OM-4, you can still go on using it by turning the shutter speed ring to the red 60. It is not completely dead.
All the best and always look at the bright side of life
Iwert
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Sonnar2
Well-known
I quitt here
I quitt here
Although YOUR lack of interest in persons you discuss with, these persons nonetheless has a right to build his/her oppion about you. Based on your rudeness on me, my rating can't be better than it is. This is one reason why most people in forums hang on to some good manners. It may need some effort but help a lot. It's up to you.
Probably you just missed the point where to shut up before personal things come up. You should take a break here, read again over it tomorrow or in a year. You will see that I will not "sell" anything to you or others, all my advise her and otherwise is gratis and you may take it or leave it. I just have another oppinion than yours. Maybe you aren't old enough having learned not all people sharing yours. But insulting humans for other oppinions about GEAR is something very silly, very stupid and brings bad karma onto people acting suchlike. . Ciao.
I take a break here too.
cameras don't ever make me "unhappy", discussions like this do. I gather and use them for fun. I earn my money with other things, and enough. I've seen hundreds of oddities and one can get used to nearly everything.
You may read this for fully understanding my motivation to start this thread. You may discuss it further without me.
I quitt here
Chris, you probably have a problem to see the human beeing beyond the "internet name". You are long enough in RFF to know that nicknames are respected here so this isn't a point. PLUS, if you are INTERESTED who I am - you said you don't respect me, so I need to assume you don't be interested - it takes you exactly two mouse clicks to get my full name and address (different from YOUR website, BTW....)
Although YOUR lack of interest in persons you discuss with, these persons nonetheless has a right to build his/her oppion about you. Based on your rudeness on me, my rating can't be better than it is. This is one reason why most people in forums hang on to some good manners. It may need some effort but help a lot. It's up to you.
Probably you just missed the point where to shut up before personal things come up. You should take a break here, read again over it tomorrow or in a year. You will see that I will not "sell" anything to you or others, all my advise her and otherwise is gratis and you may take it or leave it. I just have another oppinion than yours. Maybe you aren't old enough having learned not all people sharing yours. But insulting humans for other oppinions about GEAR is something very silly, very stupid and brings bad karma onto people acting suchlike. . Ciao.
I take a break here too.
cameras don't ever make me "unhappy", discussions like this do. I gather and use them for fun. I earn my money with other things, and enough. I've seen hundreds of oddities and one can get used to nearly everything.
You may read this for fully understanding my motivation to start this thread. You may discuss it further without me.
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jesse1dog
Light Catcher
We are all entitled to our personal opinions about equipment. We are all entitled to state and explain those opinions. That is the value of this forum.
I come to read threads for fun and instruction. I don't come to read about the 'spats' others might have between themselves. I think it devalues the forum when this happens.
I don't care who anyone is - all are equally entitled to express their thoughts.
What I don't think is appropriate is the very personal nature of comments made in previous postings in this thread. Before putting things 'on paper' perhaps it would be a good idea if sometimes writers would consider 'who will benefit' from what they write.
jesse
I come to read threads for fun and instruction. I don't come to read about the 'spats' others might have between themselves. I think it devalues the forum when this happens.
I don't care who anyone is - all are equally entitled to express their thoughts.
What I don't think is appropriate is the very personal nature of comments made in previous postings in this thread. Before putting things 'on paper' perhaps it would be a good idea if sometimes writers would consider 'who will benefit' from what they write.
jesse
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Frank, I have seen you here in RFF for a while. I'm sure you're a smart and very methodical person. I have stumbled upon your camera websites once in a while in my readings, some good info you have there.
But when you make a post like this, in a place where there are a lot of OM fans (myself included). And you put a label on all of us as "believers." That is rather condescending even though you may not meant it that way. As though you are the smart one, being able to see through the veils that a lot of us OM users has been "blinded-with" because we're so gullible.
Re-read your post again from the perspective of a photographer who has been using OM-4 for a long-long time. Be it because of love, necessity, or just something that you grow to like. And you'll see what I mean.
Maybe in German your post will read just fine, but in English, it makes you look like someone who is all out to say bad things about a *very* popular camera (a reality that you cannot deny based on facts), just to show how knowledgeable you are.
Just saying.
V
varjag
Guest
Among what Frank said about OMs, a lot was on my mind. This thread gives me a good clue what would've it been like if I said them aloud here.
Also, I hesitate to mention it, but we are on Rangefinder Forum here. While OMs are very popular here, there are plenty people who are not really into Maitani toys, and there is no obligation from them to keep OM users happy.
But personally I think it went downhill when SLR category was introduced.
Also, I hesitate to mention it, but we are on Rangefinder Forum here. While OMs are very popular here, there are plenty people who are not really into Maitani toys, and there is no obligation from them to keep OM users happy.
But personally I think it went downhill when SLR category was introduced.
ferider
Veteran
Just a side note, Frank: my wife has a Honda S2000, one of the funnest cars I've ever driven. It does have a scale rev. meter, and numbers showing speed. No needles at all.
BTW, I have no problem with your post at all, have used your web-site frequently, too. I just think much of your disappointment with the OM4 has to do with your specific camera sample.
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FrankS
Registered User
Any particular camera is not for everyone. Those who do not like a particular camera are not "wrong", neither are those who do like it "blind".
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Igor.Burshteyn
Well-known
wow, it's getting hot here. Rarely see 2 respectable rff members fighting over... hmmm... personal preferences? Personal opinions?
There is enough cameras in this world, for everyone.
I personally like OM cameras. But I can not deny one's right to hate them.
TelAviv-Copenhagen, have OM1/35mm/50mm in my backpack, will travel
There is enough cameras in this world, for everyone.
I personally like OM cameras. But I can not deny one's right to hate them.
TelAviv-Copenhagen, have OM1/35mm/50mm in my backpack, will travel
gnarayan
Gautham Narayan
Because the backlash is exactly what some people are looking for. It isn't rational. Nor is responding really.
There is this unpublished Larry Summers paper that supposedly began with "THERE ARE IDIOTS. Look around." It was referring to markets and the assumption that they are rational but I'm fairly certain that the law is more fundamental than economics.
"Your subjective opinion does not agree with my subjective opinion. Oh well...". Didn't help that English is clearly not Frank's first language. Also, the assumption that we all actually need to get the "best". The OM2n may not be the best thing. It was however the first thing I came across in the used camera section and it clicked with me.
And really, does it matter - not like either the OM or the Nikon Fs are being actively produced and if people want to get their panties in a bunch there are always film vs digital arguments to be had.
Cheers,
-Gautham
FrankS
Registered User
Someone, please post that catoon about the wife saying, "Come to bed, Dear," and the husband replying from the computer, "I would Honey, but someone on the internet is wrong!"
Chris101
summicronia
I know you said you quit here, but the above statement is what we call "fighting words". In English they represent an arrogant belief that the speaker feels that he or she is better than those they are speaking to. Whether you intended that or not, the reaction of Chris and others here is a reaction to the perceived arrogance.
Your website reveals you to be named "Frank Mechelhoff". That name means nothing to me, and although you may be known to a population of German speaking camera collectors, that demographic is not the predominant one here. Realize that here, as is common on the internet, you are just one more person with an opinion.
No matter how right you believe your opinion to be, others will disagree. If you then perceive that people with wrong opinions need to be corrected, you will wind up fighting about it as has happened here.
FrankS
Registered User
This is a good explanation of the issue here, I think.