on the superior build quality of 50's and 60's cameras

[Bertram2]

All too true. One of the real failures of the modern model of capitalism is the necessity of "planned obsolescense" to drive consumption.

Of course, we act as enablers when we buy any of these products... 🙁

William

If you allow me a remark, this has nothing to do with modern capitalism, it's a basic element of the capitalistic system since the 19th century. The more saturated and narrow the markets get, the shorter must be the cycles of "innovation" necessarily. "Modern" could be called that the super short cycles of chip technology have taken place now in the camera biz , which caused for an acceleration of the cycles impossible to do with a traditional technology.

Some years ago the amateur camera market had been at a point where too much players were acting on a market which could not grow any more.
So even if digital imaging would not have come, a lot of film makers and camera makers would have come in bad troubles anyway.
And this is the basic condition for the process of consolidation we can observe now in the photo biz, of course additionally strongly accelerated by the digital alternative.
In other words the film and analog market would not look so much better if digital would not have come !
CEWE, largest lab in Gemany processed 3.5 Billions of pics 2004, 85% still from film !
All those who do not get tired to praise digital imaging as "the future " and tell us film will die out completely don't know or withhold this backgound intentionally, from what reasons ever. Maybe it is some kind of self defense, a kind of justification for their own decision to invest in a money eating toy technology which still is wearing baby shoes as we say.

So digital photography is nothing else than the logical continuation of a process, which started in the 50s and brought us (synchronized to the grade of saturation ) lower quality for lower prices. Watch a Dynaxx5 ot Nikon F65 at the end of the analog evolution, easy to use ,easy to brake, not built to last, built as an "entry" model.
Digital imaging will be even worse, it's so fast that it will eat it's own a..e !! At the time the phonecames start to eat the P&S market ,which is only 3-4 years old !!

A CVUG member lately claimed: "Why does progress always mean a loss of quality ?"
The answer is "to keep the system running !" A bitter truth. 😡
Best,
Bertram

 

[Nikon Bob]

I guess it depends, because my car bodies now last 10 or more years without major body work as opposed to 3 to 5 years in the 60's and we still use a hell of lot of salt in the winters. OTH I still prefer FN made Brownings to modern ones simply because they had better wood and finer details, not that they shoot any better. Build quality may have nothing to do with how well an item carrys out it's designed task. It has everything to do with pride of ownership. I can agree that the loss of percieved quality (value for moneny spent) is/has disappeared in order to keep generating quarterly profits greater than the previous one. The difference between older products and new ones is that you are just trading certain problems with one for a new set with the other. Always the pros/con in everything.

Bob

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

That's indeed twisted, Bob. I wonder if you still would have your fingers to press the shutter release. Not to talk about the interaction between photographic emulsion and gamma radiation. 🙂)

A very high atmospheric burst from a single moderate yield weapon (I know, I didn't say that), we're talking about Blofeld here. It's more about extortion and chaos as opposed to inihalation 🙂.

Yep, shielding and vacuum tubes would withstand that. But probably not micro-circuitry.

My guess is that plenty of film would be in large brick, stone and steel buildings to survive. Along with a majority of the population.

 

[FrankS]

What a pleasant topic!

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

What a pleasant topic!

I'm sorry just some morbid humor from someone who grew up at ground zero (washington DC).

It's just that some of the rangefinder cameras that RFF members use are pretty close to "tempest" specifications. I can easily see many old Russian, Japanese, German and a few American cameras lasting for another century. Simply because they were built to last in an era when that was not given a second thought.

 

[rbiemer]

I'm sorry just some morbid humor from someone who grew up at ground zero (washington DC).

It's just that some of the rangefinder cameras that RFF members use are pretty close to "tempest" specifications.

Fedzilla, I grew up a bit north of you and still remeber the air raid drills we had to do which consisted of orderly going out into the hall and kneeling with our heads against our own lockers. We were told "this is to protect you" which even as a third grader I doubted cause the hallway was big glass windows on one side and the lockers on the other side. By the ninth grade I and my know-it-all teenage friends figured that those drills were to make identifying the bodies easier. Of course my home town was always a little behind the rest of the world so that 50's cold war paranoia lasted until the 70's where I grew up.
What are "tempest specifications"?
Rob

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

What are "tempest specifications"?
Rob

Tempest specs were developed by the US military and intelligence communities for devices that would neither emit significant amounts eletromagnetic radiation or be affected by a large electromagnetic pulse.

The portion of the spec that regarded device emissions was formed from the understanding that one could decipher what was being done on an electronic device by merely tuning in to the noise it gave off.

The other part of the spec recognized that communications and and control devices would cease to operate predictably (if at all) after being exposed to EMP of significant strength. So appropriate shielding or abscence of delicate electronic electronic parts would pass muster.

It was once said that the Soviets got arround this by using vacuum tubes where necessary, such as in MIGs that were in service during the 70's. They made semicondcutors just fine, bit understood how vulnerable they were.

Being born in '55, I too remember duck and cover drills. I also had friends in the 70's who would point out that all that would allow for was easy burial of an entire site.

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

OK- this is too- too wierd. I looked up TEMPEST found a US Army Corp of Engineers document. The document's Author is Robert L. Herndon. His middle initial is only one character further along in the alphabet than my own name. He is no relative I know of.

ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE (EMP) AND TEMPEST PROTECTION FOR FACILITIES

I need to find something meaningful to do- I know... I'll go take photos.

 

[rbiemer]

Thanks, Fedzilla_Bob. For some odd reason I was trying to connect Shakespeare with cameras and it wasn't making any sense!
Rob

 

[2maneekameras]

I still have my old CPM Os Keypro. It is very portable, about the size of an old portable sewing machine. It even has a built-in 300 baud modem, a little green character monochrome monitor, nice sturdy metal case, 2 5&1/4 floppy drives and a keyboard reminiscent of an IBM selectric typewriter. My kids like to ASCI video games on it. My only problem is that I can't run my Silicon Beach Digital Darkroom(predecessor to Photoshop) software on this machine. I have an old Pfaff treadle sewing machine which can sew new shutter curtains for old rangefinders. My 1878 vintage metal lathe still machines parts just fine.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I still have my CP/M machine as well. Remember "adventure"? xyzzy.

My 1979 Atari 400 still works fine. Star Raiders is still a favorite.

My 1985 Z386-16 Zenith finally died. They just did not make em like they used to.

 

[FrankS]

"They just don't make em like they used to."

That's my point.

 

[aizan]

i guess we'll know in 10 years.

 

[dmr]

I still have my CP/M machine as well. Remember "adventure"? xyzzy.

* xyzzy
NOTHING HAPPENS
* kill dragon
WITH WHAT, YOUR BARE HANDS?
* yes
CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE VANQUISHED A DRAGON!

We played that one for HOURS on the Vax when I was back in grad school. It was a real, uh ...

* blast

🙂 🙂 🙂

Did you ever figure out how to get that last point? 🙂

 

[iMacfan]

If you ask me, one of the key companies to blame (well, someone else would have probably done it anyhow) is General Motors. They introduced the idea of "Planned Obsolescence" to their cars. This essentially creates the drive to facelift products every year with new styling etc, regardless of whether it is required, in order for fairly new products to appear older than they actually are. If you ask me, this was the point where the drive of consumer product companies switched from making the best they could to producing a product with a set lifespan.

A very few select companies have not made this change, and they include Leica, Rolex and to some extent Bang and Olufsen. They may often be elitest, overpriced beyond the means of some of us, or not on the cutting edge of technology, but they do embody a quality that is sadly lacking in the products of more mainstream companies.

David