open message to Mr. K at CV about sloppy assembly

[sanmich]

I think there are several problems with an otherwise great line of product:

Design is great. Agreed. but consistency in the design implementation not so. Not fsu-poor QC, but still.
After I heard so many good things about it, I bought a new 28 Ultron. It was a dog.
I bought a Heliar 50 3.5. It was less sharp than my other lenses.
I had a great CS 35, a screw broke inside the lens, because of me trying to re- adapt the hood that was poorly fitted (and IMHO, a poor design inside the lens). I couldn't get the part. It was a great lens otherwise.
I have now a CS 28 and 25 that, so far, are good.
So all in all, I also have a record of about 50% of good lenses.

A remark about the waranty: It is not transferable, which means that a lot of these lenses being sold after a few months don't even reach their one year warranty period.

I have to say that I never had a built problem per se, I had a Planar that had a not so smooth aperture ring, but that's it.

Between the optical issues experienced first hand and the build problems I hear around here, I am reluctant to buy another vc or Zeiss product.

What surprises me is that we are talking about lenses that are simpler than their SLR counterparts, usually much more expensive, and still QC is not there....

 

[Livesteamer]

I only own two CV lenses and they have been fine, a 15mm and 75mm f2.5. I retired several years ago after 23 years as a machinist. In the last years I worked our company was training everyone in statistical production control and ISO 9000 compliance. We were told that the better Japanese companies could go 500,000 units between defects by using spc. It would seem CV has some quality control issues. Joe

 

[nobbylon]

I've had two 35 Ultron's. Still have one of them and had a 15. No problems with mine however a friend has an Ultron which is coming apart slowly.
I'd like a Planar 50 ZM for my collection but every one I have seen lately has either a wobble or focus/aperture ring issues. This should not be on what is quite an expensive lens.
I just had a 1978 Summicron 50 serviced for the first time in it's life because of a dry focus mount. I really can't see a Planar 50 ZM coming close to lasting 33 years.
I've only had one Nikon lens with an issue. 24-85 front wobble.
It does appear that there is a QC problem and as someone else says, VC and the Zeiss line are not cheap lenses.
I'd buy a new Planar if I had faith in them to stay together!

 

[Thardy]

My oldest CV lens is the Nokton 40 purchased back in '07. It is as sturdy today as it was brand new. I have many more CV lenses in the same shape. I'm not generally hard on gear.

I do have a lens for a Rollei 6008I that has been giving me problems that probably cost at least 10x more than the Nokton. IIRC it's made in Germany.

 

[jsrockit]

Most of the CV seems pretty solid. A few lemons, but mostly good product. The 28mm 3.5 is built well... the 35mm 2.5, the 35mm nokton 1.4, 75mm 2.5 all have been really solid lenses in my use.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Most of the CV seems pretty solid. A few lemons, but mostly good product. The 28mm 3.5 is built well... the 35mm 2.5, the 35mm nokton 1.4, 75mm 2.5 all have been really solid lenses in my use.

Yes, it is random. My CV 28mm f3.5 has been perfect for years. But it was an almost like new CV 75mm f2.5 that simply unscrewed when you focused beyond infinity. That was the one in the hands of a prospective purchaser.

 

[Keith]

Not lenses but I've had three bodies that have had screws come loose to the point where they were about to fall out. No big deal if you have the right tool but it did kind of make me wonder about inside the camera!

 

[dcsang]

Seen a 50 Nokton (not the one I currently have) come to me with a loose screw - tightened it, worked like a charm.
Seen a new, out of the box, R3A eventually (after less than 6 months use) have the RF go out of alignment. Again, had to research here, open it up myself and reset the RF.

The fixes are easy enough but it's the question is, for the money that one pays (regardless if they're considered "inexpensive" as compared to Leica - hell, what lens ISN'T inexpensive when compared to Leica???) should these fixes even be necessary or should it be that they should be put together "properly" in the first place?

I love the CV and Zeiss glass to be honest but I always wonder if the next lens that comes along will be the one that falls apart on me.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Bob Michaels]

......................... The fixes are easy enough but it's the question is, for the money that one pays ............. should these fixes even be necessary or should it be that they should be put together "properly" in the first place?

I love the CV and Zeiss glass to be honest but I always wonder if the next lens that comes along will be the one that falls apart on me. ......................

Dave: thanks. This is exactly the message I hope eventually works it's way to Mr. K. He is the one who can correct this problem.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Not a nice thing to read, now that I managed to buy a CV 35mm f1.4 and a Zeiss 35mm f2 lenses for my M5 bodies. 🙁 Neither has given me any grief... and both were used lenses. As a matter of fact, I am amazed at the smoothness of the focusing ring in the Zeiss compared to the one in the CV. Hard to believe they're manufactured by the same company.

Sorry about your bad experiences, Bob. And thanks for the heads-up about these products.

 

[ampguy]

Hi bob

Hi bob

back in the day, aperture blades used to fall out of early 35/1.2's for no reason.

Count your blessings! Besides, don't you use a Hexanon 28?

I think the design is excellent. The precision of manufacturing the components does not appear to be an issue.

How much more can it cost to simply tighten the screws correctly? That and the crappy lubrication is all the problems I have seen in otherwise excellent products.

 

[Bill58]

It looks like a lot of the QC problems could be fixed by a little Loctite on the screws, but maybe is the reason is the Japanese equivalent of the old adage that "you never buy a German car made during Oktoberfest."

Oh--and I forgot that I also have a 15 w/ no problems (yet).

 

[uhligfd]

Dear Bob,

I thought of a question that might settle the issue whether the CV/ZI lenses/cameras are ill engineered or ill assembled:

How long have you used lenses etc that were "reconditioned" by your friend with a bit of enamel to set the screws permanently and/or a bit of proper lubrication?

Have these "reconstituted objects" ever required a second trip to the shop? In how many years? Or have they held up 'forever'?

Thanks for thinking of the answer which would make Cameraquest's "I don't think so" irrelevant or true.

 

[Platinum RF]

CV do have qc issue compare to Leica.
Webble problem: 15mm/4.5, Zeiss 25mm, 21mm
Lube problem: 40mm/1.4
No problem so far: 28mm/3.5, 50mm/3.5, 50mm/1.1, 50mm/1.5. I use very little. If these lenses in a professionla hands, they will fall apart early then Leica this is for sure.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Sorry to hear about your case, Bob...

I hope Mr. K will be open to consider this thread very seriously, and take decisions: we all appreciate the great line he's made possible, and we all want to keep buying his great next to come products...

I guess I've just been lucky : four Bessas and three CV lenses used daily for two years everywhere (trips, rain, sand, bumps, etc...), some of them bought new, and some of them used (came from the USA, Europe and Japan), some made a decade ago and some newer, and I have never ever had any kind of trouble with any of them... I hope I won't! They're not expensive but I love them!

I'd be really sad and bored in your situation... Thanks for starting this!

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Bob Michaels]

Dear Bob,

I thought of a question that might settle the issue whether the CV/ZI lenses/cameras are ill engineered or ill assembled:

How long have you used lenses etc that were "reconditioned" by your friend with a bit of enamel to set the screws permanently and/or a bit of proper lubrication?

Have these "reconstituted objects" ever required a second trip to the shop? In how many years? Or have they held up 'forever'?

Thanks for thinking of the answer which would make Cameraquest's "I don't think so" irrelevant or true.

The repairs I have had made, which were relubrication or tightening loose screws or components, have always cured the problems. They were not a complete disassembly / reassembly. But no problem has ever returned. Now I did have two pieces (rewind knob & shutter/iso dial) come loose on one of my ZI bodies, but each has been good since repaired.

Again the problems are random. I have a ZI 35mm f2.0 that has seen much use over 4 years and is perfect, focus is as smooth as butter. I had a 50mm Zeiss Planar that saw little use but developed a bind in the focus. That was corrected by relubrication.

 

[Quinn Porter]

I've owned six CV lenses and one CV/Zeiss lens, most of which were purchased new. They are good lenses and excellent value for the money, but there's no question the Cosina factory could do a better job in assembly.

My CV 40mm f1.4 was really stiff when new, then loosened up too much and developed a squeeking sound. It had a CLA at about 18 months and has been nice and smooth since then. When I picked it up from the CLA I was told that Cosina used lesser quality lubricants. I have no idea if this is correct, but it could help explain the issues many have had.

The focus ring on my Zeiss 35mm Biogon never felt quite right until I had it CLA'ed and it too has been great since then.

Finally, I had the front element come loose on my 50mm f1.5. I was able to fix that myself.

Like others here I think the issue is in assembly. I base that on the fact that the CLAs on the two lenses made them feel better than when they were new and they have stayed that way.

 

[Bob Michaels]

.................. we all appreciate the great line he's made possible, and we all want to keep buying his great next to come products...
..................... They're not expensive but I love them!
.....................
Juan

Juan, like you, I think the Zeiss Ikon and CV products are great. And I have had some with no problems over many years of frequent use.

The designs are very good. The glass is very good. It just seems to be intermittent quality control in assembly.

If I thought the assembly problem was not easily fixable, I would just keep quiet and move on. But I am more convinced than when I started this thread that this is a problem that can be fixed.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Juan, like you, I think the Zeiss Ikon and CV products are great. And I have had some with no problems over many years of frequent use.

The designs are very good. The glass is very good. It just seems to be intermittent quality control in assembly.

If I thought the assembly problem was not easily fixable, I would just keep quiet and move on. But I am more convinced than when I started this thread that this is a problem that can be fixed.

Surely it looks like it is.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[jan normandale]

interesting thread, I've four CV lenses and two RF's none have given me any issues. I'm not doubting all the comments above just noting it's not happened to me.