open message to Mr. K at CV about sloppy assembly

[dcsang]

As an FYI: I have owned a 40mm, 35mm (both 1.4 and 1.2), 28mm Ultron (new one) and a couple 15mm LTMs which have never had issue - mind you, I used these for about 2 years before selling them to move onto other gear (like many of us do).

I think the point is, for most in this thread, it's not that it happens to every single CV / Zeiss lens or that it even only happens to every other lens - it's the fact that the quality control could maybe use a bit of tightening up that's all. Clearly, with all of us buying both new and used CV / Zeiss lenses it's not like we dislike what we see/get out of them 🙂

Cheers,
Dave
Cheers,
Dave

 

[Jockos]

My heliar 75/2.5 and Skopar 21M are fine so far, I've only had them for a few months tough.

The Skopar I bought used 35C is not 100% tight in the focus, but works fine.
My Nokton 50/1.1 had loose internal screws, which CameraQuest fixed up free of charge.
The R2M was out of alignment vertically on arrival, but i adjusted that myself. Easy fix, but it voids warranty, and should be spot on from factory.

I might get a used R3M if I cannot find a decent priced M3, but after that I cannot see myself buying any more Cosina products as the situation is now. Time is money also, thus the Nokton did not come cheap as I have not been able to use it yet, months after purchase.

 

[Ronald M]

Just great they that they get thru the warrantee. IMHO the warrantee is for discovering manufacturing/design flaws. You do not manufacture just to get thru the warrantee. Getting thru the warrantee is simply not an indication of a quality product.

How happy would you be if if you car fell apart just after the warrantee?

I refuse to buy any of their stuff until the situation improves and I stop reading about wobble etc.

 

[Bob Michaels]

............................. I refuse to buy any of their stuff until the situation improves and I stop reading about wobble etc.

That is a bit hard but you are entitled to spend your money as you see fit.

We must always remember that the Cosina manufactured equipment is very good and superb when you factor in price. At least any problems can be corrected. That is a long ways from an optic that will always be mediocre even when it is functioning perfectly.

 

[sevo]

Some Contax G and SLR lenses also had a reputation for wobble... Perhaps a mismatch between German specifications and Japanese production standards?

 

[Bill58]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the flaking off of the black paint on the lenses that many mentioned awhile back. Maybe that problem was fixed?

 

[Sparrow]

Mine have been fine, perhaps I'm too careful with them

 

[thrice]

My only CV booboo was my 50/1.1 Nokton that came loose before I even bought it! The focusing ring just kept turning after what should have been a hard stop at infinity. I waited 15 mins while the technician tightened it up before I took it. Worked fine after that.

I guess my lens missed the fine QC check at the factory somehow.

 

[awilder]

I't's not so much a Japanese thing but likely company based. My limited experience with Konica RF gear has been great, they seem even better put together than Leica gear. Except for very fast and wide angle lenses or ultra fast 50's, there are some nice M and LTM style Konica lenses on the used market.

 

[Frontman]

Late last year I bought a new 50/1.1 Nokton, a lens which I had been interested in for a long time. I hadn't even finished my first roll of film in the camera when I noticed that the lens felt a little loose. I then when to take a shot with the lens on my M6ttl, and I was surprised when the meter in the camera stopped working properly. Looking into the front of the lens I found that the aperture blades had all come loose and were obstructing the opening.

The few good shots that I got on that first roll were phenomenal, and I really wish that the lens hadn't come apart within hours of purchasing it. I returned the lens for a refund, and haven't bought another CV product since.

 

[Bob Michaels]

My only CV booboo was my 50/1.1 Nokton that came loose before I even bought it! The focusing ring just kept turning after what should have been a hard stop at infinity. I waited 15 mins while the technician tightened it up before I took it. Worked fine after that.

I guess my lens missed the fine QC check at the factory somehow.

I had the same problem with an almost new CV 75mm f2.5. Now it is fine once the tech tightened it up.

Unfortunately it was in the hands of a prospective purchaser when it happened. He immediately lost all interest in the CV 21mm, CV 28mm f3.5, & 40mm Nokton I would like to find homes for. All great lenses but just ones that I do not use.

Many local photographers rely on our local camera repair guru for opinions. He has done much work fixing my Cosina manufactured lenses and bodies that have fallen apart. So you can imagine his opinion.

The excess CV lenses I have are on consignment at our local used camera dealer. He paid for having my 50mm Zeiss Planar relubricated because he had borrowed it when it began to bind up. I know the caution he will give a regular customer / friend like me who is considering buying one of my CV lenses. I guess I need to try to sell them here. I hope I have not shot myself in the foot with this thread.

 

[bobby_novatron]

I love the CV + Zeiss products. I think the Zeiss lenses in particular are outstanding.

My track record:

ZM 50/2 -- bought 2nd hand, has not exhibited any problems.

ZM 21/2.8 -- bought 2nd hand, needed service for wobble.

Zeiss Ikon ZM -- bought 2nd hand, ISO / EV compensation dial broke and needed repair (I was able to disassemble the part and fix it myself).

Zeiss 35/2.8 -- bought new, no issues.

Additional note: In order to understand the issue with my Zeiss Ikon, I disassembled the same mechanism in my trusty Bessa R3A, since they're both Cosina-made and have a similar top plate.

Surprisingly, I found the Bessa R3A dial mechanism was BETTER designed than the Zeiss Ikon was.

The Zeiss dial has a fragile 'toothed' dial made from aluminum that clicks into a plastic selector dial. This single tooth is only about 1mm in size, and very bendable / breakable. The loss of this tooth is what causes the free-turning dial problem on my ZI.

The Bessa R3A has a much sturdier brass assembly with a brass tooth that is much larger. The Zeiss looks more delicate by comparison.

At any rate, I will still be using and enjoying my CV / Zeiss products.

FWIW I have heard of QC issues with Leica as well. These problems are not just endemic to Cosina.

 

[awilder]

It sound like QC could be enhanced by greater use of thread lock or a drop of enamel over internal screw heads as Nikon typically did. If they go to the trouble of doing this and checking all screws for tightness, many of these issues probably wouldn't occur. Rangefinder film cameras are a shrinking market in light of new and improved digital cameras so it would benefit all parties concerned for Cosina put a little more effort in the final assembly of the products. Many RF user impressed with Cosina lenses will adapt them to mirrorless digital cameras, so it would be nice if their reputation was not marred by sloppy final assembly.

 

[Brian Legge]

awilder -

Without more competition at this price point, how much incentive does Consina have? I'm not against improved quality control by any means, but the fact that this is a shrinking market when Consina is already in other markets... not the biggest incentive for them to make less money here than they do currently.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

As an FYI: I have owned a 40mm, 35mm (both 1.4 and 1.2), 28mm Ultron (new one) and a couple 15mm LTMs which have never had issue - mind you, I used these for about 2 years before selling them to move onto other gear (like many of us do).

I think the point is, for most in this thread, it's not that it happens to every single CV / Zeiss lens or that it even only happens to every other lens - it's the fact that the quality control could maybe use a bit of tightening up that's all. Clearly, with all of us buying both new and used CV / Zeiss lenses it's not like we dislike what we see/get out of them 🙂

If this were a Leica thread, you'd be an "apologist"!

Yes, I'm sure that percentage-wise this would be a small number. I have a 35mm Ultron (the paint flaking off is not an assembly issue) and the LTM 15mm Heliar, and have never ever ever had a mechanical problem with them. Ever.

 

[Vilk]

fail-safety is part of both "design" and "engineering" - if my truckload of daily-used nikon lenses did not squeak or creak or "just fall apart" in thrity years, that's because they found no way to squeak or creak or "just fall apart"

no need to sweeten the pill for mr k, junk is junk 🙄

 

[photogdave]

Here's my Voigtlander experience:
35mm Ultron: bought new, used for two years with no problems.
35mm Nokton: bought new, used for four years (main lens) with no problems.
21mm LTM: bought used on RFF, used for five years with no problems.
50mm 1.1: bought new, used for two years with no problems.
Here's my Leica experience:
50mm Summicron: bought used six years ago. Red dot fell off.
40mm Summicron: bought used four years ago, no problems.
90mm Tele-Elmarit: bought used three years ago, no problems.
35mm Summicron (v.IV) bought used in pieces three years ago. Paid for re-assembly, no problems since.
28mm Elmarit ASPH: bought new three years ago. Within first year aperture ring became loose. Sent to Leica for repair and got it back five months later. Works fine now.

So far my track record with Cosina is better than Leica.

 

[bobby_novatron]

Forgot to mention, I own or have owned:

CV Skopar 21/4: no problems

CV 35/1.4: no problems

CV 75/2.5 Heliar: no problems, only minor paint wear (from general use)

To be honest, I am surprised to hear about these issues from Cosina. Japanese manufacturing standards are supposed to be among the best in the world -- that's why 'Made in Japan' has a certain caché to it. People tend to think that Japanese manufacturing has stricter quality controls.

This might sound heretical, but perhaps Mr. K could look into off-shore manufacturing? 'Made in China' is not an epithet any longer. He could reduce costs and increase quality control and STILL sell his lenses for a reasonable price.

Case in point: a lot of the Leica final assembly is made in ... wait for it -- Portugal! Yet their products still say 'Made in Germany'. Doesn't seem to bother anyone that much.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Forgot to mention, I own or have owned:

CV Skopar 21/4: no problems

CV 35/1.4: no problems

CV 75/2.5 Heliar: no problems, only minor paint wear (from general use)

To be honest, I am surprised to hear about these issues from Cosina. Japanese manufacturing standards are supposed to be among the best in the world -- that's why 'Made in Japan' has a certain caché to it. People tend to think that Japanese manufacturing has stricter quality controls.

This might sound heretical, but perhaps Mr. K could look into off-shore manufacturing? 'Made in China' is not an epithet any longer. He could reduce costs and increase quality control and STILL sell his lenses for a reasonable price.

Case in point: a lot of the Leica final assembly is made in ... wait for it -- Portugal! Yet their products still say 'Made in Germany'. Doesn't seem to bother anyone that much.

Not a lot: some. And not 'final assembly', either: mostly simpler 'metal bashing' inc. CNC milling.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Nikon Bob]

For Leica, if the final/most of the assembly is in Germany then it is made in Germany. Leica has had made in Canada gear and I have seen made in Portugal Leica binoculars.

Bob