open message to Mr. K at CV about sloppy assembly

[awilder]

"Without more competition at this price point, how much incentive does Consina have? I'm not against improved quality control by any means, but the fact that this is a shrinking market when Consina is already in other markets... not the biggest incentive for them to make less money here than they do currently."

I can't imagine the extra time and effort needed to make their lenses less prone to falling apart would cost that much more. Certainly it could be mostly passed on to the buyer who would gladly pay it if the product would hold up better. If a CV lens went up by $25-50, would that really stop you from buying it?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

awilder -

Without more competition at this price point, how much incentive does Consina have? I'm not against improved quality control by any means, but the fact that this is a shrinking market when Consina is already in other markets... not the biggest incentive for them to make less money here than they do currently.

There's a motivation: they'd make even less money if they lose their customers... But they won't, because their quality and price are both excellent.

I'm pretty sure Mr. K is considering these reports and he'll investigate inside CV and there'll be changes to prevent these minor issues... (Honestly I think they are minor...) And if I ever have any problem with my CV gear, I'll accept it: that simple. It can happen with any brand, and it's never happened to me before with any CV product, so I feel they are doing things in a very good way in general...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[rogerzilla]

The one thing putting me off the otherwise rave-reviewed C-Biogon 35mm is that a significant percentage of users report a loose focus ring after a period of use. This is said not to affect the photos, but it would drive me nuts. I'd expect Zeiss in Germany to take an interest in QC since the lens has their name on it.

 

[seakayaker1]

Currently own the CV 28/1.9 Ultron, 40/1.4 Nokton, 50/1.5 Nokton, and 90/3.5 Lanthar APO and have had no problems with any of the lenses. I have owned in the past a Zeiss 25/2.8, CV 75/2.5 and 75/1.8 and had no problems.

Feeling good about Zeiss and CV to this point . . . . .

 

[jarski]

thx for OP starting discussion in a constructive manner.

personally I've become little wary, both because personal and others experiences. two CV lenses I've bought new never had issue, but some like-new, few years old lenses had similar small issues already reported above.

 

[anthony_semone]

Bob,

I don't think you've shot yourself in the foot at all. Frankly, I think you've done us all a great service by putting up the post that led to this thread. That you've apparently got a pretty skilled service tech available to you should speak well for the integrity of any lens that you are looking to sell.

 

[Bob Michaels]

thx for OP starting discussion in a constructive manner. .............................

It has certainly not been my intention to speak poorly of CV cameras / lenses or Zeiss Ikon cameras or lenses. I use them and am pleased overall. This was just an attempt to make Mr. K aware of the number of assembly problems that we are experiencing because I continue to believe these QC problems can be economically solved. I am pleased to see those who continue to speak highly of the CV and ZI products. Also those who have not experienced problems.

I have much respect for Stephen Gandy and Mr. K as businessmen. I am sure Mr. K understands the difference in quality level demanded by someone who buys a M mount lens and the purchaser of a $129 FM-10. I am confident that Zeiss Ikon wants assembly of their products to live up to their legendary name.

I would hope the end result of this is a comment from Stephen Gandy indicating he has relayed a summary of this thread to Mr. K. And feedback from Mr. K that he understands the public perception of the problems with the QC process at Cosina and is addressing the problem.

 

[Keith]

Here's my Voigtlander experience:
35mm Ultron: bought new, used for two years with no problems.
35mm Nokton: bought new, used for four years (main lens) with no problems.
21mm LTM: bought used on RFF, used for five years with no problems.
50mm 1.1: bought new, used for two years with no problems.
Here's my Leica experience:
50mm Summicron: bought used six years ago. Red dot fell off.
40mm Summicron: bought used four years ago, no problems.
90mm Tele-Elmarit: bought used three years ago, no problems.
35mm Summicron (v.IV) bought used in pieces three years ago. Paid for re-assembly, no problems since.
28mm Elmarit ASPH: bought new three years ago. Within first year aperture ring became loose. Sent to Leica for repair and got it back five months later. Works fine now.

So far my track record with Cosina is better than Leica.

Isn't this how you tell it's autumn in Germany without having to go outside to look at the trees? 😀

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Isn't this how you tell it's autumn in Germany without having to go outside to look at the trees? 😀

Yes, autumn in Germany is told by the loss of red dots. Is Australia in Spring announced by a kangaroo invasion? 😉

 

[jan normandale]

Yes, autumn in Germany is told by the loss of red dots. Is Australia in Spring announced by a kangaroo invasion? 😉

Mostly signified by people sporting Kangol hats actually ;D

http://www.kangolstore.com/

 

[Sparrow]

They sport Kangol because the quality control on the Tilley hats got so poor ...

 

[ravid905]

I have also had mostly good experience with Cosina built gear; the used Bessa R2M, 28 1.9, two 35 PII's, and new 40 Nokton all held up quite well for me during the time I owned them. However, I currently own a ZM 35 f2 Biogon (purchased used from Matsuiyastore) which has developed a squeaky and sometimes grinding focus, and lens wobble. I have tightened the wobble myself a couple of times, but it keeps happening. I guess I will need to send it to someone who can hopefully fix it permanently, but since this is a used non-warrantied lens, I have no idea who to send it to, or what it would cost to do so.

When I was in the market for a 35mm, I was split between the two ZM 35's, the Ultron, the 1.2 Nokton, and possibly even a V2 or V3 Summicron. The irony is I settled on this lens because I thought these issues were only with Voigtlander branded gear. It was only later that I discovered the thread discussing the Zeiss wobbles as well.

In the long run, I might hesitate buying new Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses and cameras, even though they would obviously be warrantied against this sort of thing. Eventually that warranty would expire leaving me to wonder how long the lens will hold up. I know that may sound a little pessimistic given my relatively good experience with Cosina items, but if spending an extra $300.00 on an older, maybe less capable Summicron (I don't know the truth of that statement, never owned a 35mm Summicron before) ensures I get a lens that won't come apart (I haven't heard any tales of a V2 Summicron developing lens wobble), that is what I would do.

 

[back alley]

They sport Kangol because the quality control on the Tilley hats got so poor ...

i have a couple of kangols...pretty good so far...love the pork pie hat!!

 

[Pablito]

Certainly if I had as many problems as described by the OP I might well be convinced there is a QC problem with these lenses.

On the other hand, I do own 5 or 6 CV lenses and I have had not one problem despite using them heavily for years. Should I conclude the lenses are 100% reliable?

Or is this bad luck / good luck, or a QC issue or not?

I don't think we have enough data to really make a judgment from a few anecdotes either pro or con on RFF.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Certainly if I had as many problems as described by the OP I might well be convinced there is a QC problem with these lenses. ..................................... .

Believe me that I thought long and hard before I began this thread. I am not one to speak poorly about any product based on my own limited experiences. I understand statistical distribution reasonably well.

The large number of posts, like "Zeiss wobble" and others combined with my own experience to conclude there was an assembly QC problem. I can conclude that the problems others have posted in this thread support that. They also support a pubic perception of the problem that may be undeservedly worse than the actual problems.

I am also pleased to see the people, such as yourself, have not had problems. As I said previously, I used a ZI 35mm lens almost as my only lens for about 3 years. I still use it. And it is remains flawless. I am currently using 2 ZI bodies, 2 ZI lenses and also own 4 more CV lenses. All currently work fine. But some of them have been in the shop for repair because they simply started falling apart.

Most of all, I am hoping that this thread gets relayed to Mr. K and the assembly QC problem gets improved.

 

[rogerzilla]

The Biogon 35/2 that Steve Huff reviewed on his site had a loose focus ring, and that was a review sample from Zeiss!

Reading this thread and elsewhere, it does seem to be a widespread problem. Actually, not much camera gear seems built to last these days, probably because of short product lifetimes and outsourcing; the average digicam is probably designed for 1-2 years maxmum*. Prime lenses should be an exception though, because some people will want to keep them for life.


*our first Fujifilm digicam spontaneously cracked across the body after 18 months; the replacement Canon Powershot developed a loose and erratic lens door after about six months. The Ricoh Caplio after that keeps turning itself off and the current Lumix, while reliable, has the slowest and most unreliable AF I have ever seen. Digicams are junk.

 

[rbsinto]

Am I the only one here who finds it strange that considering the various people here who know the Cosina President and likely advised him of this thread, that not a single reply has come from him or a company representative regarding the CV quality issues?

 

[Bob Michaels]

Am I the only one here who finds it strange that considering the various people here who know the Cosina President and likely advised him of this thread, that not a single reply has come from him or a company representative regarding the CV quality issues?

I believe only two people here have direct contact with Mr. K of Cosina.

Tom Abrahamson is a lens tester or something. I expect he will stay on the sidelines.

Stephen Gandy, owner of this site and major, the not the, distributor of CV products in the US is the other. Stephen is a businessman and will make a business decision. We will have to live with his decision since it is his ball and his ball field.

 

[CameraQuest]

Randy: I honestly don't know.

I do know that my ZI body, manufactured 4 years ago had the shutter speed / iso dial fall off. So did the rewind crank.

I had an excellent Zeiss 50mm Planar, some 3 years old develop a bind in the focus because of the poorly applied grease.

I have an excellent 40mm CV bought 8 months ago with very little signs of use develop a squeak in the focus helicoid because of poor lubrication.

I have an like new 75mm CV lens bought 4 months ago and used very little start to come apart today as I was showing it to a prospective purchaser.

All have been repaired (even today's problem as I was at the camera repair shop) but now I wonder what will come apart next.

It is a shame because these are great products other than falling apart of needing dis-assembly for correction of lubrication problems.

Hi Bob,

You only mention your local repair guy.
Why aren't the items above being repaired under warranty?

Which items did you buy used, which new ?

Stephen

 

[Bob Michaels]

Hi Bob,

You only mention your local repair guy.
Why aren't the items above being repaired under warranty?

Which items did you buy used, which new ?

Stephen

Stephen: all were bought used here on RFF, except for the ZI body which was bought from KEH.

I would have used my local repair guy, even if under warranty, as he is quite close and usually stops what he is working on and repairs my equipment while I wait. Usually no charge or minimal cost.