Opinions? User Leica or New(er) RF

Huck and all: I wanted to back up that buying cameras that need repair can be exactly as Huck stated! I consider it "conservation of inconvenience" to get a great price. If you are willing to take some risk and put some faith into the camera repair shops, there are ways to get these cameras relatively cheap. Neither I nor Essex thought the M2 would take two months to get repaired, but "stuff happens". If you are on a budget, it can be worth it. If you are making your living by it, different story. Most of the time things go smoothly, and standard repairs turn over quickly. BUT some cameras can be a can of worms; I have found that either handling the camera personally or buying from an honest seller like JDOS2 that lists all known problems or the EBay'r that sold the M2 listing it with a broken rewind at least lets you go in eyes open.

I have had some Ebay "burns" like a Polaroid 680 that required a new circuit board listed as Mint and another SLR listed as "I see no reason why this camera will not work perfectly" that had been in a fire and was melted internally.
 
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Ohoh! Another potential addict!

Cameraquest has a really sweet deal on the Bessa R + 35/2.5 C in silver for only $399! There's no way you can beat that: a very fine, brand new camera with a very good, brand new lens.

After using it for a while you might want a 50mm lens. The J-8 could very well be your choice. For less than $40 you'll get a lens that'll give you smooth OOF areas and wonderful bokeh. And it's pretty fast at f2, too. iMacFan has had a bit of trouble wit his J-8, and you should be aware of his tale, but most of us have never experienced any focusing problems.

Than, after using the Bessa and lenses for a while, you'll start thinking about them Russian cameras and Leicas. The FEDs and Zorki's are usually good cameras but have their own quirky habits, which you might or might not like (but you can try out a few at those low prices). The Kievs are another breed alltogether, and will take you away from LTM and M mount cameras (not necessarily a bad thing, though your wallet might complain a bit about the extra spending). The Leicas have their own, powerful, reputation. An M3 or M2 is probably what you'll start looking for but Leica III(f?), CL or M6 might tickle your fancy as well.

IMO it's best to start out with affordable and new, meaning the Bessa deal. You'll have plenty of opportunity later to spend loads and loads of money on anything else you might like, need or want. :)
 
Huck Finn said:
Mike, we've all been there, so it's not what WOULD we do; it's what we did.
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In my case I'm advising something different from what I did. My first RF was a Leica, but this Bessa R at $249 is just too good to pass up. You could buy an excellent 35mm Summicron to go on the front of it and you would have a fantastic camera! :)
 
Oscar Wilde: "I can resist anything but temptation." Ditto.

Considering all the good advice and contemplating my (lack of) resources, I ordered a Bessa R. I'll shoot my Canonet while I amass funds for glass (was out this morning trying unsuccessfully for access to a steel mill for industry-in-winter pictures). I think this means I've shelved my SLR improvement plans. From confusion ... direction.
 
Congrats Mike, did you get the body + 35/2.5 deal? That really is a great camera. Add the CV 75/2.5 to it and you have a great compact kit. I shouldn't have sold mine.........

But beware - you are now on the slippery slope that leads to a Leica!

:)

tim
 
No, Tim, just the body, although it is a great deal to do both. I'm going to take some time and look around for some glass while I shoot my Canonet (which I like more and more). Also, I have this European trip that might happen in a few months ...

Thanks everyone for taking the time to post and help me out. This is a superb forum in so many ways!
 
peter_n said:
This Bessa R at $249 is just too good to pass up. You could buy an excellent 35mm Summicron to go on the front of it and you would have a fantastic camera! :)
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The Bessa R is a LTM and not M-mount camera, and so you'd be preventing yourself from using almost any Leica lens made in the past 50 years.
 
iMacfan said:
The Bessa R is a LTM and not M-mount camera, and so you'd be preventing yourself from using almost any Leica lens made in the past 50 years.
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But there are so many LTM lenses (from Leitz, Canon, Nikon, Voigtlander; German, Russian, Japanese; etc.) around he can go on for years without wanting or needing an M lens.

Furthermore, the R is so cheap he can't go wrong. If it turns out he doesn't like RF cameras he still hasn't broken the bank. Investing in a Leica M is something you need to have money for, which is something many of us don't have readily available or are not able or willing to spend on a camera.

One day soon he'll might be tempted by the lure of the Leica. Until then, let him revel in his joy, give him his pleasure, and be happy for him. :)

Enjoy, McT! And welcome to the club! :D
 
iMacfan said:
The Bessa R is a LTM and not M-mount camera, and so you'd be preventing yourself from using almost any Leica lens made in the past 50 years.
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Many people prefer the older lenses for various reasons - "look", price, etc. And they are all usable on an M mount camera if he decides to upgrade. I have an M6 but only two of my lenses are M bayonet.
 
Sorry if I annoyed anyone - I too agree that Leica is not the "be all and end all" of RF photography. I'd also say, though, that CV are releasing some of their more interesting new lenses (e.g. 40/1.4 and 35/1.2) in M-mount only. They have commited to the continued manufacture of LTM lenses, but now that they make only M-mount bodies, that might not last forever.

Also, while most of us won't be purchasing a Leica 50/1.4 ASPH anytime soon, some 2nd hand lenses are available at sensible prices. For example, I've just bought a 1970s user 50mm Summicron for less than the price of a new 50mm Nokton. I'm glad I did not remove this option - and I think that that's the key.

Please don't get me wrong - I picked up a BessaL for next to nothing in a deal a while back, and the mechanical shutter is a bonus as a backup and the build quality I find perfectly acceptable.

Like everyone else has said, the most important thing is if you get on with the camera in question. A host of super features and a huge discount can count for nothing if the shutter button feels in the wrong place or if you can never get a comfortable grip. If you are lucky enough to go and try out some of these cameras in a local shop definitely take the opportunity.

David
 
No annoyance David, just a healthy difference of opinion! :) I agree with you about the direction CV seem to be going with the mount of their lenses, and there is some concern about that in the user community. However as Remy points out there are a lot of LTM thread lenses to choose from so he should be all set for a while yet. :)
 
Well, I don't know whether it's obsessive to ask, but I guess iMac raises a point I'm not smart enough to appreciate. It seems like there are many LTM lens options out there, far more than should create concern over equipment limitations for me (experience is my limiting factor, puh-leeze believe). So ... let's say you had just $425 to spend, why not buy an R with the CV 2.5/35mm (or something close to this lens)? Or, put another way, with the money I "save" I could buy an inexpensive but capable scanner to be able to post pictures and get critiques and improve my ability, for example. In other words, put the present equipment question to rest and get on with shooting.

I was thinking generally that CV and other LTM lenses offered a less expensive way to experiment and develop a feel for what works for me. M system bodies and lenses seem overall quite expensive, at least on my budget, and don't seem sensible. Am I thinking well?
 
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LTM lenses are plentiful and cheap! You have a bunch to choose from, cheap, and with real personality. There are a ton of under $50 lenses out there, Canon, Schacht, Steinheil, OLD Leica, etc. $425 is plenty to experiment with, and for the older used lenses you can always sell them for about what you paid for them.
 
Cameraquest

Cameraquest

RML said:
Cameraquest has a really sweet deal on the Bessa R + 35/2.5 C in silver for only $399! There's no way you can beat that: a very fine, brand new camera with a very good, brand new lens.
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Nice set and reasonably priced :) . Is there something to say about Cameraquest, because loosing $400 would be a big thing for me. Good or bad experiences?

/rudi
 
Cameraquest is a good reputable business. More risk dealing with the postals services delivering the camera than with Steven Gandy.
 
I ordered my Bessa R & 35mm ColorSkopar set from Stephen Gandy last year (I took black, so it was 425 USD) - delivery was OK, with one small problem: I had also orderd a MiniSoftRelease, which was not in the package - the package had been opened by customs, though, and might have fallen out - we never found out what happened; ordered a Bessa L (for my 25mm Snapshot Skopar) recently, and now Stephen is including a MSR for free....
And, psst, don't tell the officials, but Stephen declared a MUCH lower value on the package, so I paid only about 1/4 of taxes and duties of waht I was supposed to...

Roman
 
Roman said:
And, psst, don't tell the officials, but Stephen declared a MUCH lower value on the package, so I paid only about 1/4 of taxes and duties of waht I was supposed to...
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And what would have happened if the package was run over by a truck or something? Under-valuing shipments is a sucker's game: you'll eventually lose big.
 
Good point - but I did not ask Stephen to do that, so it would have been his problem... It was just a pleasant surprise when I came to the customs office, expecting to pay about 80 Euros, and it was only about 20...

Roman
 
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