Overview of all regular Zeiss Sonnar 5cm f/2 aka 50mm f/2 versions

Miles. said:
Alright, Sonnar experts, please discuss...

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レア玉 CARL ZEISS JENA SONNAR F2 5cm T Lマウ... - Yahoo!オークション

□商品詳細 この度は数あるオークションの中からご覧頂き、誠にありがとうございます。 最後までお読みいただきますようお願い申し上げます。 ★大特価★ ★限定一品のみ★ ★レア玉★ ★CARL ZEISS JENA SONNAR F2 5cm T Lマウント★ ‐付属する商品 （写真に写っているもの
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I have one like this, and have worked on others. Post war Carl Zeiss Jena optics in all, and the ones I've used are fine performers. The Focus Mounts are "One Way Trips" with the barrel permanently in place. The Helical cannot be separated without machining it again. The RF Cam is the close-focus stop, to separate the helical: would have to be removed and no way to put it back once you've done it. Made at the factory by workers needing the extra cash from someone that wants a Sonnar in Leica Mount- my best guess.





Whatever the backstory: the lens is a good performer and the RF agreement is perfect on this one.
 
TenEleven said:
I guess it's kind of too late since it has already sold apparently. But the viewfinder window had a whole lot of mold in it from the look of the pictures. Also the self timer lever was corroded, in my experience both of these are indicators that the camera was stored in a very damp place for a while. This can't mean good things for the lens if it was stored together with the camera.



They changed the leather (to something less thick and luxurious feeling) near the end of the run for the II. My late war-time II's don't have Zeiss bumps either, but the leather is thinner and of a different texture. Having never taken off the back leather - I can't confirm but I think it's still leather and not a synthetic material like for the later IIa and IIIa's.
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I've seen IIa and IIIa bodies with Zeiss bumps, so even if they changed the leather the problem still persisted.
 
Cascadilla said:
I've seen IIa and IIIa bodies with Zeiss bumps, so even if they changed the leather the problem still persisted.
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The leather of the (early) IIa's is different from the II's leather (late and early) again. And yes they do get Zeiss bumps. They did however later switch to a synthetic material (it does not feel like leather at all) for the later IIa's and IIIa's and this one does not get Zeiss bumps.

This change mostly coincides with the finder becoming neutral in color, so it's quite late in the cameras life.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but the zeiss bump thing is just another issue that can drive one crazy.
C-serial number Contax II, no bumps, for Machoukuo on pressure plate
D-serial number Contax II, has bumps
K-serial number Contax III, no bumps
Jena Contax II serial 18176, a few small bumps
Jena Contax II serial 18229, no bumps
 
Hello Räuber,

since you mentioned (in your initial post ... "When you find some strange inconsistencies, missing or wrong information then let me know."), I do actually have some remarks. I'm currently considering to purchase of one of these two Zeiss Jena f/2 Sonnar lenses ...

1.) Zeiss Jena Sonnar 50mm f/2, S/N: 3501715;

Link: Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 50mm f/2 T (For Contax I/II/III)

Based on appearance and serial, it should coincide with the following entry in your "Zeiss Sonnar 50mm F/2 - regular Versions and Specs" blog overview ...

"[v3b ZE CR arrs0] 1950 Carl Zeiss Jena Contax aluminum red arrow, red dot pin, silver mount 50mm"​


The lens offered by Italian RCE, appears to me as pure aluminium (or aluminium alloy), with no chrome plating whatsoever. While the heading of entry on your blog page concurs with my visual perception, a description below is a bit confusing to me;

" chrome plated brass body, chrome finish with Contax Rangefinder mount"
  • name ring: Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Nr (red T)
  • filter rim: black, rippled, 40.5 mm filter thread
  • aperture ring: big, chrome, black aperture scale, straight lines, diagonal 22 line
Admittedly, a sample lens in your gallery (S/N 3500878), may as well look like it's chrome plated, but that doesn't seem to be the case with Jena Sonnar 50mm f/2 for sale at RCE Foto.

2.) Zeiss Jena Sonnar 5cm f/2, S/N: 3093805;

Link: Carl Zeiss Jena f. Contax 2/5cm Sonnar T #3093805

If I'm not mistaken, the matching reference in your blog, is this one ...

"[v3b ZE CR arrs] 1947 Carl Zeiss Jena Contax aluminum red arrow, red dot pin, silver mount".

Your description in the blog seems to agree with appearance of the lens I'm considering (see green corrosion on the ribbed focusing ring) ...

"chrome plated brass body, chrome finish with Contax Rangefinder mount"
  • name ring: Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1:2 f=5cm T Nr (red T)
  • filter rim: black, rippled, 40.5 mm filter thread
  • aperture ring: big, chrome, black aperture scale, straight lines, diagonal 22 line,"
... but entry heading does not ("aluminium").

Would appreciate if you could shed some light on these seemingly conflicting details. Thank you in advance for your time and effort ...
 
Hello Räuber, guys,

I just realized I made a mistake, identifying the first Jena Sonnar from my shopping list - the 50mm f/2, S/N: 3501715, as "[v3b ZE CR arrs0] 1950 Carl Zeiss Jena Contax aluminum red arrow, red dot pin, silver mount 50mm", while I should refer to "[v3b ZE CR arrb0] 1950 Carl Zeiss Jena Contax aluminum red arrow, red dot pin, black mount 50mm" entry in the blog overview. As it happens, that entry contains correct references to aluminium.

Nevertheless, entries "[v3b ZE CR arrs0] 1950 Carl Zeiss Jena Contax aluminum red arrow, red dot pin, silver mount 50mm" and "[v3b ZE CR arrs] 1947 Carl Zeiss Jena Contax aluminum red arrow, red dot pin, silver mount", may still benefit from clarification, as to which materials those lenses were made of - chromed brass or aluminium.
 
Thank you @SebastianMWS. I skipped working on the guide for some time but finally looked into your comment. Yes the lens you asked about was a v3b ZE CR arrb0 not a v3b ZE CR arrs0. It is easy to spot since the mount of the arrb variation is painted black while the mount of the arrs is chrome.

Thank you for your feedback. You are right it would be better to make it more clear that the arrs variant is made from brass and has a chrome finish while the arrb variation body is mostly made from aluminum. I already improved the titles of the arrs variations. I will see if I need to add some sentences in the description.
 
Thank you Räuber,
appreciate your time and effort, to edit descriptions of Jena Sonnar 50mm f/2 lenses I was referring to. Now they all check out, to the best of my humble knowledge.
I wish there were more user experience floating around the Internet, pertaining optical performance of post-war Jena Sonnar lenses in Contax RF mount (both f/1.5 and f/2 variants). All I was able to find were reviews written by people, using those lenses with Contax II/III series cameras, but none that would give a hint about sharpness and contrast when used with digital Leica Ms (M9 for example).

A while ago I had quite an elaborate discussion about Zeiss lenses from that era, with Chis Andreyo from Skyllaney Opto-Mechanics, who spoke highly about the Jena Sonnar 8.5cm/85mm f/2 post-war lenses, as being every bit as sharp and contrasty as their Oberkochen Zeiss-Opton and subsequent Carl Zeiss counterparts, but he also cautioned me against being overly excited about Jena Sonnar 5cm/50mm post-war optics, when compared to revised formula of West German siblings.

Thank you once more for your courtesy ...
 

OK, this is totally not fair

but I am gonna post it anyways. Two lenses, a 1950 Jupiter 3 with CZJ 272 series optics, and a Jupiter 3+ circa 2016. Which is which? The 1950 lens was overhauled by Skyllaney in 2023. Sony a7III, both lenses have a tiffen UV filter, camera setting of natural (no color boosting), straight...
rangefinderforum.com rangefinderforum.com

Might be a good starting point when it comes to sharpness of Sonnar lenses. You can find my 2 cents on page 3. Someday I will write about sharpness of the Sonnar in comparison but at this moment I will only say that a good copy is pretty sharp but you will see that it was created 90 years ago. Don't expect the sharpness and flare resistance of a modern lens like the Voigtländer Noktons. The f/1.4 lenses of the 70ies are sharper and better corrected than a Sonnar. But I would take the Sonnar over a Tessar every day.
 
Apologies for belated response, Räuber. To be honest, deep inside I knew all along, that Zeiss-Opton 50mm may be my best bet, as far as my general preferences for high contrast AND good sharpness are concerned (with later Carl Zeiss being way to prone to balsam separation). In the meantime I came across an early Zeiss-Opton 50mm f/1.5, having 5-digit S/N (Nr. 88488), which appear to be extremely rare on the second hand market. As an added bonus, it has dry aperture blades (also quite rare) and nice clean glass, seemingly without any age related issues (haze, fungus, etc). Will report back, might add some shots taken with Leica M-E Typ 220.
 
Although it's far (very!) from an exhaustive test, I've this far developed two rolls taken with my 1936 f2 Sonnar, and been very impressed. The grain in the b&w one is down to dopey developing (I am a muppet), and the colour is a high street lab. I'm particularly impressed with the latter, its not in the album but I did shoot one into a hazy sun to see what the flare looked like... and it didn't flare at all!
www.flickr.com

Contax III

Explore this photo album by gray1720 on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
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I have a question to the Nickel Sonnar 5cm f2 with black band. This one:

v3bZJCRbr_7.jpg

As you can clearly see this one has a Nickel body with a chromed aperture ring and chromed filter rim. So my question is do you know of any copies with a Nickel aperture ring + filter ring or chrome body?

My question comes from that sometimes I get the impression that there might be Sonnars with black band that have an all chrome body or an all Nickel body.

Look for yourself.

All chrome?

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All Nickel?


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ZEISS IKON CONTAX 1 (model F) 5cm F2 CARL ZEISS SONNAR LENS | eBay.de

LENS IS FREE FROM FUNGUS BUT HAS SLIGHT AGE RELATED HAZE.
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I might be mislead by the white balance on those photos. That is why I need your help. Maybe someone has a copy with clearly all chrome or Nickel finish or has seen one.
 
I've taken apart one from the 165xxxx block, and have my own from the 173xxxx block.

This is the lens from the same block as above. Notice the Spacer used to adapt the Barrel to the mount, which is the same as the 5cm F1.5 that was phased out sometime during the 1607xxx block. I have one 5cm F1.5 from that block with a Black ring, one later in the block that was all chrome. My "Speculation"- Zeiss used up the older black-ring mounts with the less expensive 5cm F2 Rigid.
RetainingScrewOut_of_Mount, UNSCREW.JPGRigid_Remove_Spacer_Then_Retain_ring.JPGClean_Rear_InPlace_Or_Unscrew.JPGOptics_Lift_Out.JPGOptics_Out.JPGRemove_Filter_Ring_Set_Screws_Take_Off_Namering.JPG
 
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