Paper rant and a question

[FallisPhoto]

Some time ago, I used to love printing on Oriental Seagull graded papers. However, they stopped making them in anything but glossy finish. I do not like glossy papers. I think the glare makes them not display very well. Oriental's only variable contrast paper, which is also the only one they make in a "luster" finish ("pearl" to all you Ilford users), is coated in plastic these days "to dramatically reduce wash times." Well, if I were concerned about the wash times I wouldn't be using FB paper in the first place. It also occurrs to me that if you coat FB paper in plastic, you've pretty much got RC paper (or as close as makes no difference). After dropping Oriental like a hot rock, I went to Vesta paper. It had pretty much the same look, was about half as expensive, and of course they dropped that within six months of my finding out about it. Next, I switched to Agfa paper. We all know how that came out.

Okay, now we come to the question. Does anyone here have experience with Oriental Seagull papers from back when they were good and know of a similar paper?

 

[williams473]

I'd try some good old easy-to-get Ilford Multigrade FB - I know it comes in semi-matte and/or matte finishes. Maybe try the warm tone paper for a little more tonality. Forte is another manufacturer making a nice line of papers that are available in various un-glossy finishes. Nothing exotic - just what I can get from B & H in the States...

 

[nikon_sam]

I'd try some good old easy-to-get Ilford Multigrade FB - I know it comes in semi-matte and/or matte finishes. Maybe try the warm tone paper for a little more tonality. Forte is another manufacturer making a nice line of papers that are available in various un-glossy finishes. Nothing exotic - just what I can get from B & H in the States...

I'll second that emotion...😎

 

[Bryce]

I'm a semi matte paper sort of person myself.
Since the demise of Forte, I've gone half heartedly shopping for a replacement paper to their neutral tone, semi matte. All I've come across as a possible replacement is Kentmere.
Ilford only offers their warmtone paper in semi matte!

 

[Jerevan]

Oh, I just love the Ilford Matt FB paper - it's close to heaven for me. Only thing is that it is pretty expensive compared to the other favourite, Kentmere Finegrain, which is semi-matt. Also looking very nice is the Foma 542 chamois paper, but it is quite varm and the base is creamy, not white. Any rumour of its demise is not true, as they have now secured a paper base from the far east.

 

[Trius]

Fallis ... how do you dry the glossy paper? I dry face down on fiberglass screening, and I like the sheen but it's not ferrotype glossy. If that doesn't work for you (it's surely a personal preference) but you still like the characteristics of the Seagull FB, you could get matte spray. When I worked in a colour lab we only used one type of surface. The matte and lustre finishes were sprayed on.

 

[rpsawin]

Check out Slavich papers at Freestyle.

Bob

 

[drewbarb]

I sypathize with your frustration- too many great papers have disappeared over the last (insert your own tipping-point) number of years. This has been going on for quite a while...

With the loss of grade 0, then grade 1 papers, I switched to variable contrast, and learned to split-filter my prints. Happily, I found I could often get a greater range of tones between white and black with this method on modern VC papers than I could get even with grade 0 papers of the past. Sure, we may have fewer choices now, but what we have now is still pretty good. As for matte vs. glossy finishes, I share your predeliction for matte finish, (especially for RC papers!) but for fiber papers, I have found that some of today's glossy fiber papers are not too bad. Air drying definately helps tone down the gloss of the finish and reduces glare while still giving the deepest blacks. For example, check out Oriental's VC fiber paper; even though it is only available in glossy finish, dry it looks more like a semi-matte paper. It suprises me as one of my current favorites, glossy finish not-with-standing.

But to address your quest for a new paper still being made- look for Bergger papers. They are among the best out there today. They make some truly beautiful heavy weight fiber papers, in gloss, matte, and semi-matte finishes, in both warm and neutral tones. Within the last few months they changed distributors and can be hard to find, but I am told that that should change soon; as I understand it, they should be readily available again by spring-time. Lately I have also had good luck using Foma and Kentmere papers; I and my print clients have been pleased with the results.

Anyway, go online to the major retailers (B&H, Freestyle, Calumet Photo, etc.) and get a few packs of a few different things in small quantities and try them out until you find something you like. You might discover a few nice suprises. Good luck!

 

[sepiareverb]

The first batches of Bergger papers are enroute to the US according to Bergger US the other day. I love the Bergger papers. They were coated by the Forte plant (which is now closed due to environmental regulations??), and are now being coated in England.

For a softer finish paper, I like the full Matte Ilford fiber-base finish in cold-tone quite a lot. I have some Slavich in 'silk' (I hope like that old Agfa surface) and Foma in matte finish on the way.

There is nothing like the old Seagull Graded Glossy finish (blue box days). I really miss that surface...

 

[FallisPhoto]

Thanks for the replies. I've been reluctantly using Foma/Forte lately, because it's one of two paper brands that are readilly available locally and I don't like Ilford (too cold and stark for what I do and doesn't tone very well compared to others I've tried). Although there is no question that Foma/Forte is not as good as Oriental used to be, it is at least adequate. I have not tried Bergger papers, as those are very hard to get here (their papers are gone from the stores just about as soon as they can put them on the shelves, leaving lots of Ilford and Forte. This is the first I've even heard of Slavich. I'll try to get hold of some of that. If it is like the Agfa paper, then it will at least be a little more adequate than the crap I'm using now. To be honest though, I just now went to the Freestyle website and (judging from their description) the Bergger Silver Supreme sounds more like what I am looking for. I just wish it was available in something more than grade 2.