djonesii
Well-known
I lived in Paris for five years, married a French girl, have two french children, and now have dual nationality. Along the way, I have picked up a bit of the language so to say. As a group, the Parisians are no more or less rude that those of any other city in their general class, think New York, London, Rome, Tokyo ..... As a rule, it's a big city, and when on the street, you more or less keep to your self. It's just a matter of safety.
As a group, the wait staff in restaurants and and cafes have a different mind set than their American counterparts. In fact, one of the big banks did a great ad with just that theme. Waiter is a profession in France. They get reasonable pay, full health benefits, 35 hour work week, (which may be phased out ), and 5 weeks holiday. In general, they are consummate professionals. On the other hand, they can be an uncaring lot, and in general the bad apples do not discriminate. They are equally evil to the French and the tourists. As my wife speaks just like a native, and I can understand it's from first hand experience. However, once a person is known in the neighborhood, it's an amazing how really open the people in where I lived in the 5th, 7th, and 16th were.
In the big generality of things, there are laws on the books in France that allow you to protect your self from the prying eyes of photographers, and to some extent, that includes us. So, even raising the and a simple nod goes a long way in the politeness department.
I would suggest the Rue Cler just near the Eiffel Tower, or the Puce for some really great photo ops. The shopping area around the Bonne Marche is also good.
I just had my first street shooting in Paris w/ my Panasonic G1, and if I ever get some time I will post the set.
Dave
As a group, the wait staff in restaurants and and cafes have a different mind set than their American counterparts. In fact, one of the big banks did a great ad with just that theme. Waiter is a profession in France. They get reasonable pay, full health benefits, 35 hour work week, (which may be phased out ), and 5 weeks holiday. In general, they are consummate professionals. On the other hand, they can be an uncaring lot, and in general the bad apples do not discriminate. They are equally evil to the French and the tourists. As my wife speaks just like a native, and I can understand it's from first hand experience. However, once a person is known in the neighborhood, it's an amazing how really open the people in where I lived in the 5th, 7th, and 16th were.
In the big generality of things, there are laws on the books in France that allow you to protect your self from the prying eyes of photographers, and to some extent, that includes us. So, even raising the and a simple nod goes a long way in the politeness department.
I would suggest the Rue Cler just near the Eiffel Tower, or the Puce for some really great photo ops. The shopping area around the Bonne Marche is also good.
I just had my first street shooting in Paris w/ my Panasonic G1, and if I ever get some time I will post the set.
Dave
djonesii
Well-known
my view on paris
my view on paris
The bread and the cheese are exceptional, worth the price of the airline ticket just to have a proper Brie! I grew up on Velveta and Chedar, and by comparison, it's a processed cheese food product. No soul. On the other hand, there is some local production Goat cheese that's pretty tasty, never have found a good baguette here though.
my view on paris
See the edits .......
The bread and the cheese are exceptional, worth the price of the airline ticket just to have a proper Brie! I grew up on Velveta and Chedar, and by comparison, it's a processed cheese food product. No soul. On the other hand, there is some local production Goat cheese that's pretty tasty, never have found a good baguette here though.
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Trius
Waiting on Maitani
To get a proper baguette, you have to start with the correct flour, which I guarantee will not be found at the local A&P, Kroger, Safeway, Loblaw's or even Whole Foods. Cognoscenti bakers in NA import proper flour from Europe.
The cheese situation here is somewhat better. In some locales you can even find cheeses from unpasteutized milk. For goat cheese on a fairly large scale, Woolwich is fine. On an artisinal scale, Fifth Town (which also produces superb sheep's milk cheese) is da bomb. Couple with County cider, and satisfaction is assured.
Some years ago I challenged a waitress in a Wisconsin restaurant on the local cheddar. She was somewhat incensed, but compared to Ontario cheddar, her offering was crap. Try Balderson, Mapledale or (only locally found) Kaesemann 7-year from New Hamburg.
The cheese situation here is somewhat better. In some locales you can even find cheeses from unpasteutized milk. For goat cheese on a fairly large scale, Woolwich is fine. On an artisinal scale, Fifth Town (which also produces superb sheep's milk cheese) is da bomb. Couple with County cider, and satisfaction is assured.
Some years ago I challenged a waitress in a Wisconsin restaurant on the local cheddar. She was somewhat incensed, but compared to Ontario cheddar, her offering was crap. Try Balderson, Mapledale or (only locally found) Kaesemann 7-year from New Hamburg.
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Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I agree, on both points. Sue and I find that if you start out speaking in french, they will listen until you get stuck, and then they will help out in english. That's in Paris and other fairly large cities, like Dijon or Auxerre. In the South of France, for example Cassis or Toulon, the person may have almost no english at all, so then it really pays to have a little french.
No one looked at my Leicas except for one fellow in Auxerre who liked my IIIc.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Trius
I have to agree on the cheddar cheese, the American and Canadian varieties are two very different cheeses.
Bob
I have to agree on the cheddar cheese, the American and Canadian varieties are two very different cheeses.
Bob
AgentX
Well-known
Paris and Parisians were fantastic for us...
Joao
Negativistic forever
Sergio
After all the "must see" spots, I sugest you to get a taste of something different: try the quartier Chateau Rouge (especially Rue Polonceau and the Marché Dejean) –a taste of Africa, nice restaurants, wonderful occasions to shoot colour film. If you prefer Asian instead then try Square Baudricourt and all the area between Av de Choisy and Av d’Ivry. A wonderful contrast between small oriental shops and massive modern architecture, you will see old ladies practicing Tai-Chi with huge skyscrapers in the background. Personally I enjoy those areas of cultural mixing - you will find plenty of contrasts inside a single frame.
Ah, and do not miss the great exhibition at Calouste Gulbenkian Cultural Centre, Av d’Iena 51, - “Au Feminin- Women Photographing Women 1849-2009” . I've read a recent comment, and I really regret not being there to see it.
Boa Viagem
Joao
After all the "must see" spots, I sugest you to get a taste of something different: try the quartier Chateau Rouge (especially Rue Polonceau and the Marché Dejean) –a taste of Africa, nice restaurants, wonderful occasions to shoot colour film. If you prefer Asian instead then try Square Baudricourt and all the area between Av de Choisy and Av d’Ivry. A wonderful contrast between small oriental shops and massive modern architecture, you will see old ladies practicing Tai-Chi with huge skyscrapers in the background. Personally I enjoy those areas of cultural mixing - you will find plenty of contrasts inside a single frame.
Ah, and do not miss the great exhibition at Calouste Gulbenkian Cultural Centre, Av d’Iena 51, - “Au Feminin- Women Photographing Women 1849-2009” . I've read a recent comment, and I really regret not being there to see it.
Boa Viagem
Joao
Cutly
Established
shure, but cheddar and real cheese is very different...
(ok, I'm french - and from paris as well)
btw, I agree with the post just above, and I see no one mentionning the "père lachaise", wich is something to see !
I you go to montmartre, dont get stuck in the tourists streets, and try to move a bit further. great place !
have a look to the "canal st martin" too.
edit : just avoid the underground at worker's time. like every big city I guess.
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feenej
Well-known
American cheese does not suck. Were I live, in Wisconsin, there are small cheese factories in tiny little towns in all directions. The cheese is incredibly good. I'd put our cheese in competition with Euro cheeses any day.
You could taste some bland, old, big-factory beer that has been sitting on the shelf for months here in America and say that American beer sucks; that would not be true either.
You could taste some bland, old, big-factory beer that has been sitting on the shelf for months here in America and say that American beer sucks; that would not be true either.
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Cutly
Established
cheese factory ? Euro cheese ? (england or germany or poland are part of europe, but for the cheese, well you can mostly forget about it. Real cheese country are france and italy, for the most part of it.)
A real cheese is not a "pasteurisé" one, a living thing if you want. Don't confuse it with boiled milk !
but, man, I won't argue no more ...
(once I was working in england and afer 3 weeks of english food I was so depressed that I couldn't resist to say quite loudly "gosh, the food here is horrible", and one of the women I was working with looked at me and said in a very ferm and polite way "no, it's different". So I won't try a food debate no more - but she was obese, like more of the third of the people I was working with, btw.. )
as for the beer, belgium is the place for real beer. I mean, you can actually find good beers quite everywhere, if you want to (well in fact I'm not shure of that, but let's pretend - I mean, in some places they don't even know that there are other kind of beer than blond). But in Bruxelles, they actually know what good beer is, and that's the kind of beer you simply find in every pub/café. The point is not "can you find some good beer elsewhere" but will you shure find it? Will it be easy to find? Will people appreciate it? Will it be the usual thing you eat/drink everywhere? Or is the good stuff only for some "connaisseurs"? Good beer in belgium is not something hidden you have to find, it's culture.
Same for the cheese in france. there's more than 350 different kind of cheese in france. (like, cheddar is a kind of cheese). and for the most of them, they don't come out of some factorys...
A real cheese is not a "pasteurisé" one, a living thing if you want. Don't confuse it with boiled milk !
but, man, I won't argue no more ...
(once I was working in england and afer 3 weeks of english food I was so depressed that I couldn't resist to say quite loudly "gosh, the food here is horrible", and one of the women I was working with looked at me and said in a very ferm and polite way "no, it's different". So I won't try a food debate no more
- but she was obese, like more of the third of the people I was working with, btw.. )as for the beer, belgium is the place for real beer. I mean, you can actually find good beers quite everywhere, if you want to (well in fact I'm not shure of that, but let's pretend - I mean, in some places they don't even know that there are other kind of beer than blond). But in Bruxelles, they actually know what good beer is, and that's the kind of beer you simply find in every pub/café. The point is not "can you find some good beer elsewhere" but will you shure find it? Will it be easy to find? Will people appreciate it? Will it be the usual thing you eat/drink everywhere? Or is the good stuff only for some "connaisseurs"? Good beer in belgium is not something hidden you have to find, it's culture.
Same for the cheese in france. there's more than 350 different kind of cheese in france. (like, cheddar is a kind of cheese). and for the most of them, they don't come out of some factorys...
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feenej
Well-known
Well, you don't have to take my word for it; look up the results in international cheese competitions - Wisconsin does pretty well, though European nations win 3/4 of the time.
Wisconsin has turned to making more craft cheese in the last 10 years. We were getting our asses kicked in the commodity market for cheese by California.
Wisconsin has turned to making more craft cheese in the last 10 years. We were getting our asses kicked in the commodity market for cheese by California.
Cutly
Established
yep, but for what I heard or find, these are english - holland kinds of fromage, cheddar, even some bleu or munster but pasteurized ones. I mean, for a french guy like me, real fromage is not pasteurized. It's a serious matter of taste.
And this is just illegal in united states, so...
but this is not a cheese topic. i hope I'll pass in wisconsin one day to have a taste of it
And this is just illegal in united states, so...
but this is not a cheese topic. i hope I'll pass in wisconsin one day to have a taste of it
SergioGuerra
Well-known
I am now back home at Portugal, and must say I found everyone in Paris very polite and kind enough. I speak French, and apart from the cameras, I dont think I am a tourist stereotype
Now I have to scan a lot of film, but my Rolleiflex developed a sticky shutter so 1/3 of my medium format photos were lost
I should have taken the Super Ikonta!
Here goes the first photos:
At Montmartre
A game they play on the parks with some metal balls... didnt understand how it works
"La Pagode"... you find all kind of buildings in Paris, this is a nice cult cinema theater
And the streets are simply cool...
I ll post some more when I get the time
Regards, and thanks everyone for the tips...
Sergio
Now I have to scan a lot of film, but my Rolleiflex developed a sticky shutter so 1/3 of my medium format photos were lost
I should have taken the Super Ikonta!
Here goes the first photos:
At Montmartre
A game they play on the parks with some metal balls... didnt understand how it works
"La Pagode"... you find all kind of buildings in Paris, this is a nice cult cinema theater
And the streets are simply cool...
I ll post some more when I get the time
Regards, and thanks everyone for the tips...
Sergio
TimSmith-Laing
Established
I know it's not a food thread, but..
I know it's not a food thread, but..
Well, guys, firstly, CHEDDAR IS ENGLISH! I can't vouch for American cheddar, but I've tasted some really good Canadian. And the thing is it's really the equivalent of brie or camenbert: it's the standard cheese in England, like they are the most basic, common denominator cheeses in France. Brie can be delicious, but most of time - in French supermarkets no less than anywhere else - it's bland and boring. Ditto cheddar. I come from half French stock, and foodie stock at that, and I know French cheese pretty well; the conclusion I come to is that, if you're going to be a one-cheese nation, you could do a lot worse than cheddar.
As for English food, well, yes, it can suck. The standard of food in France is great, low end to high end. Anybody whose eaten in routier cafes will tell you that the French equivalent of a trucker's caff is pretty incredible. But please let's not think that English food, per se, is bad. There are great chefs (Mark Hix etc) cooking English cuisine at michelin star level - because at it's best it can be fanastic. Someone who knows how to cook a traditional roast can floor even the most sceptical continental diner. But, you've got to hand it to the nation that invented the restaurant: there's a reason the English for haute cuisine is haute cuisine.
Rudeness wise, I agree with everybody who's pointed out that Parisians are no more or less rude than the denizens of other major European capitals. Sadly though, just like in every other tourist town there's a lot of petty people ready to overcharge whoever walks in and doesn't speak native whatever. So it goes. Rome, Paris, London, they're all the same from that point of view.
Personally, the only times when I considered Parisians rude were the occasions when people insisted on speaking bad English to me without gauging the level of my French. This would happen almost like clockwork whenever I was speaking English to a friend in a bar or cafe and can be incredibly frustrating. I once had a French teacher who was, of course, bilingual and had grown up in Paris, with his Parisian mother. On a school trip he was ordering for a table of other teachers - with whom he'd been talking in English - turning to waitress he found that she actively refused to speak to him in French. Her English happened to be not so great; he persisted in French. She dug her heels in and told him just to speak English; he pointed out that he was French; she told him he was English. And so it went on. It's a mindset that can become frustrating when you're living and working in Paris.
Sigh.
Tim
I know it's not a food thread, but..
Well, guys, firstly, CHEDDAR IS ENGLISH! I can't vouch for American cheddar, but I've tasted some really good Canadian. And the thing is it's really the equivalent of brie or camenbert: it's the standard cheese in England, like they are the most basic, common denominator cheeses in France. Brie can be delicious, but most of time - in French supermarkets no less than anywhere else - it's bland and boring. Ditto cheddar. I come from half French stock, and foodie stock at that, and I know French cheese pretty well; the conclusion I come to is that, if you're going to be a one-cheese nation, you could do a lot worse than cheddar.
As for English food, well, yes, it can suck. The standard of food in France is great, low end to high end. Anybody whose eaten in routier cafes will tell you that the French equivalent of a trucker's caff is pretty incredible. But please let's not think that English food, per se, is bad. There are great chefs (Mark Hix etc) cooking English cuisine at michelin star level - because at it's best it can be fanastic. Someone who knows how to cook a traditional roast can floor even the most sceptical continental diner. But, you've got to hand it to the nation that invented the restaurant: there's a reason the English for haute cuisine is haute cuisine.
Rudeness wise, I agree with everybody who's pointed out that Parisians are no more or less rude than the denizens of other major European capitals. Sadly though, just like in every other tourist town there's a lot of petty people ready to overcharge whoever walks in and doesn't speak native whatever. So it goes. Rome, Paris, London, they're all the same from that point of view.
Personally, the only times when I considered Parisians rude were the occasions when people insisted on speaking bad English to me without gauging the level of my French. This would happen almost like clockwork whenever I was speaking English to a friend in a bar or cafe and can be incredibly frustrating. I once had a French teacher who was, of course, bilingual and had grown up in Paris, with his Parisian mother. On a school trip he was ordering for a table of other teachers - with whom he'd been talking in English - turning to waitress he found that she actively refused to speak to him in French. Her English happened to be not so great; he persisted in French. She dug her heels in and told him just to speak English; he pointed out that he was French; she told him he was English. And so it went on. It's a mindset that can become frustrating when you're living and working in Paris.
Sigh.
Tim
JohnTF
Veteran
Love Paris, only rude folks are working in the airports, seems to be a law,-- dry sense of humor which may appear to be rude to non French speaking, as you are left not understanding that there is a joke --
Traveling many times alone, people have engaged in many interesting conversations. Traveling with a woman-- people smile at you if you hold hands or embrace.
I hear the laws were recently changed and you can now photograph people in public without permission, though I do not know if it is well publicized.
Cheese-- France is No. 1, though you may find some good Cheddar in the US, it hides behind a lot of poor quality cheese products.
Met the Earl of Brie-- nice guy, Jacques, owns a castle in the Loire, hit on my lady friend, tried to show her the dungeon.
Best beer, Czech Republic, -- and they have some good cheeses, -- a big problem in cheeses in restaurants is that some places serve them before they ripen. Germans buy their hops from the Czechs.
Never discuss bread or a bakery with a Frenchman, all have their favorite place and there is no discussion.
The touristy places in the 5th near Notre Dame (Kilometre Zero) are fun, but all those Greek restaurants seem to be run by Tunisians, but you get good value, and you might break some plates.
Great Crepes in the 5th-- some specialty restaurants, enjoy with Cidre.
Street food-- Crepes-- a complet, which if you are not careful will be part of your shirt.
On the other side from Notre Dame, Europeen Maison de Photographie, rotating exhibits.
Great lunch-- the lunch room in the front -- upper deck, of the Musee D'Orsay, if you are a teacher, you do not need to wait in line, or pay to enter, spend it on lunch.
In the 5th the Arenes de Lutece, fun to watch the men play boules, great shadows as well. Roman arena discovered when they put in Rue Monge.
You will get some photos, light is bright.
Almost any market on market day for photos as well.
Dinner, Cote Seine, 45 Quai des Grands Augustins, classic menu -- but really all included. fois gras, wing of ray, marquise de chocolat, house wine and coffee.
Tours-- I think the best is the canal cruise, ends up under Bastille.
Hotels, lots, there is a book-- Hotels de Charme, I liked Grand Hotel des Balcons near Odeon, Alexander is still at the desk, and he bought a Nikkormat from me many years ago. Ask for the 5th floor in the front.
Excuse the spellings, I hope I speak better than I spell. ;-)
Regards, John
Traveling many times alone, people have engaged in many interesting conversations. Traveling with a woman-- people smile at you if you hold hands or embrace.
I hear the laws were recently changed and you can now photograph people in public without permission, though I do not know if it is well publicized.
Cheese-- France is No. 1, though you may find some good Cheddar in the US, it hides behind a lot of poor quality cheese products.
Met the Earl of Brie-- nice guy, Jacques, owns a castle in the Loire, hit on my lady friend, tried to show her the dungeon.
Best beer, Czech Republic, -- and they have some good cheeses, -- a big problem in cheeses in restaurants is that some places serve them before they ripen. Germans buy their hops from the Czechs.
Never discuss bread or a bakery with a Frenchman, all have their favorite place and there is no discussion.
The touristy places in the 5th near Notre Dame (Kilometre Zero) are fun, but all those Greek restaurants seem to be run by Tunisians, but you get good value, and you might break some plates.
Great Crepes in the 5th-- some specialty restaurants, enjoy with Cidre.
Street food-- Crepes-- a complet, which if you are not careful will be part of your shirt.
On the other side from Notre Dame, Europeen Maison de Photographie, rotating exhibits.
Great lunch-- the lunch room in the front -- upper deck, of the Musee D'Orsay, if you are a teacher, you do not need to wait in line, or pay to enter, spend it on lunch.
In the 5th the Arenes de Lutece, fun to watch the men play boules, great shadows as well. Roman arena discovered when they put in Rue Monge.
You will get some photos, light is bright.
Almost any market on market day for photos as well.
Dinner, Cote Seine, 45 Quai des Grands Augustins, classic menu -- but really all included. fois gras, wing of ray, marquise de chocolat, house wine and coffee.
Tours-- I think the best is the canal cruise, ends up under Bastille.
Hotels, lots, there is a book-- Hotels de Charme, I liked Grand Hotel des Balcons near Odeon, Alexander is still at the desk, and he bought a Nikkormat from me many years ago. Ask for the 5th floor in the front.
Excuse the spellings, I hope I speak better than I spell. ;-)
Regards, John
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jarski
Veteran
thx. been wondering what is least "touristy" season in Paris to visit there. I was in Prague this summer, and there also many places are over crowded by tourists.
JohnTF
Veteran
thx. been wondering what is least "touristy" season in Paris to visit there. I was in Prague this summer, and there also many places are over crowded by tourists.
Looks as if you had a good room. ;-)
I think they are all French, on August Vacation during Cucumber Season. ;-)
John
jarski
Veteran
view from old town hall.but, sometimes after swimming against the tide, one starts to think that perhaps there was a better time, despite when perfect weather is most likely.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Tim, yes I know well that cheddar is English. I hear they even named a village after the cheese.
There are some very good cheeses, cheddar and otherwise, but normally they are not easy to find.
And I am certain one can find ordinary cheeses in France or any other country. But given France's cheese heritage, I'd rather shop fir cheese there than many other places.
And if you have trouble with your French in France, come to Quebec. It's like a whole other language.
There are some very good cheeses, cheddar and otherwise, but normally they are not easy to find.
And I am certain one can find ordinary cheeses in France or any other country. But given France's cheese heritage, I'd rather shop fir cheese there than many other places.
And if you have trouble with your French in France, come to Quebec. It's like a whole other language.
historicist
Well-known
I'm English, so I'm obviously biased, but there is no doubt in my mind that a good cheddar can go toe to toe with any of the great cheeses of the world.
The only problem is that finding a good cheddar is a lot harder than finding a good cheese in France, you really have to go out of your way whereas the French just have to walk down their street, so it seems
English beer is also great once you stray from the large brands - there's so many smaller breweries and a massive variety on offer. Belgian, meh, tasty but too strong, one bottle and I'm out cold. I've never managed to find a really good German beer either, despite its reputation.
btw, no rudeness from the locals when I was in Paris at all.
The only problem is that finding a good cheddar is a lot harder than finding a good cheese in France, you really have to go out of your way whereas the French just have to walk down their street, so it seems
English beer is also great once you stray from the large brands - there's so many smaller breweries and a massive variety on offer. Belgian, meh, tasty but too strong, one bottle and I'm out cold. I've never managed to find a really good German beer either, despite its reputation.
btw, no rudeness from the locals when I was in Paris at all.
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