pass around scanner test : 1 neg, many scanners

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sf

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Would it be highly unreasonable to begin a giant scanner comparison in the following manner :

take one 35mm and one 6x4.5 frame - nothing special, just a good test frames, and send it from member to member, everyone that is interested can scan the frame without editing or tuning, except color balance, and post the test scans on the site.

Maybe 1 35mm slide and one 6x4.5 B&W. Or two 35mm (C41 and E6) and one black and white.

That way, we can get a very thorough showing of how all the scanners on the market perform on a single negative/slide. It would be hugely effective as a tool for aiding those who seek film scanners and have little in the way of true evidence and comparisons to work with.

Of course, we would have to be VERY careful with the test frames - like brain surgeons, and everyone would have to make sure their scanner was working at 100%. Just put them in a small but sturdy container and mail it around by the cheapest means possible.
 
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I like the idea, but I think it does have some shortcomings. The one that strikes me first is that the negs would get very dirty, scratched and dusty pretty quickly with all that handling.

Second, as you know this forum is highly erm fond of debate, which means it might be very difficult to agree on what is the standard workflow.

It's an interesting idea however, and I don't want to be seen to squash it, so how about some useful constructive discussion on these ideas?

Hope your search for work goes well.

Andy
 
I use a Nikon Coolscan V for my negs. It does Slides or negs. Top res is 4000dpi. Works great for me, many images in my gallery were scanned negs. You wouldnt be dissapointed.
 
sfb_dot_com said:
I like the idea, but I think it does have some shortcomings. The one that strikes me first is that the negs would get very dirty, scratched and dusty pretty quickly with all that handling.

Second, as you know this forum is highly erm fond of debate, which means it might be very difficult to agree on what is the standard workflow.

It's an interesting idea however, and I don't want to be seen to squash it, so how about some useful constructive discussion on these ideas?

Hope your search for work goes well.

Andy
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Well, that is what i meant by surgical care. People would have to be careful with the negs to avoid scratching, fingerprinting, etc. I would send them out in sleeves, people would use tweezers to handle them. . . and just do one high res scan, resize to max 1000 pixels per side, and post.

Of course, on real consideration, my late night idea seems a lot less reasonable. I've just never seen a good comparison of film scanners.
 
I'm game for this. It should be conducted in the spirit of fun, as well as potentially educational.

Workflow standardization might be a touch tricky, since different scanners have different "default" settings. And, with some scanners, one can't be certain if there's any sharpening going on just before the file is kicked to Photoshop (or the alternative image editor of one's choice). But I would suggest keeping things simple on the post-scan side: no USM, minimal basic correction (levels/curves), and, where applicable, possibly post images scanned with and without Digital ICE. Might seem a tad fussy, but for those of us seriously scanning our own work (and perhaps others' work as well), I think this would be worthwhile.


- Barrett
 
Hi shutterflower, I have been thinking along the same lines a while ago and have produced a roll of identical slides and b/w negs of a still life (a vase full of flowers). There's a wealth of hues in the color slides (e200 ektachromes) and the tones in the delta 400s are rich. Both come framed and are ready to ship worldwide for $5 a pair. Paypal to lutzkonermann at compuserve dot com is fine. Cheers.
 
Lutz said:
Hi shutterflower, I have been thinking along the same lines a while ago and have produced a roll of identical slides and b/w negs of a still life (a vase full of flowers). There's a wealth of hues in the color slides (e200 ektachromes) and the tones in the delta 400s are rich. Both come framed and are ready to ship worldwide for $5 a pair. Paypal to lutzkonermann at compuserve dot com is fine. Cheers.
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not sure what you mean. . .


Are you saying you have created a set of scanner tests from a single frame taken of the still life? That is what we intend to do here.
 
I'm saying that I shot a roll each of identical slides and negs (tripod, Zuiko 50/2 macro, one of the sharpest around). They are all identical originals. So there's no need to swap them - everybody gets his/her own sample. Here's what they look like:

http://www.photo.net/bboard-uploads//00Bfnp-22592584.jpg

I'll add details in another post. Cheers.
 

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Lutz said:
I'm saying that I shot a roll each of identical slides and negs (tripod, Zuiko 50/2 macro, one of the sharpest around). They are all identical originals. So there's no need to swap them - everybody gets his/her own sample. Here's what they look like:

http://www.photo.net/bboard-uploads//00Bfnp-22592584.jpg

I'll add details in another post. Cheers.
Click to expand...


OH! That makes sense. I thought about that, but have not done any still life work. Those are 35mm, then.

I also want to do some medium format - get some flatbeds in there like the 4990 or 9950. I can shoot a roll of B&W still lifes with the Bronica and send those out. I guess doing it with a set of identical negs makes more sense, otherwise at a week per shipping, it will take us all year to do this.

So, I'll throw in 16 identical B&W negs. Anyone have some C41 they'd like to share?

Then, anyone interested in taking part just say something and each person send that person one of their frames for scanning. They post the test at maximum res/no modification/resized to 1000 pixels on the longest side.

Now, we DO have to consider the issue of consistent shipping practices. We will have to somehow ensure that the negs are not exposed to moisture or friction in post.

Any ideas? Because each of us could end up mailing out 5+ frames. THAT is the reason I figured working with ONE set makes sense in some ways. If I just put together a set of C41/E6/B&W, slipped them in a filter holder, and we mailed it around 2 day shipping, it would be reasonable as far as cost, time, and alot simpler than sending out tons of negs in all directions.
 
Now, we DO have to consider the issue of consistent shipping practices. We will have to somehow ensure that the negs are not exposed to moisture or friction in post.

Hmm, if you're really critical about that, I could fit them inside zip lock plastic envelopes, but that would add to weight/bulk and hence to shipping costs... I'd have to check by how much - probably in the $2-3 region. That might make it $8 for a zip locked pair, worldwide.

BTW, I don't believe in passing on the same originals. That's a dead end approach, in my experience. People will forget about it for too long, won't have the time to do the thorough scanning right away and won't have any chance to re-do the scanning if they should wish to, because of a different software, hardware setting, etc.

So, at $5 for a framed pair of originals to KEEP, this is a love service provided by some for a whole group of forumers who can start right away and in parallel - and go on with it for as long as they wish. Just my 0.02.
 
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OK, very reasonable. Lutz has some E-6 and B&W negs. Which would you prefer to send? You could send both, but will end up spending more. I'm not sure about your B&W. . . it looks as though it make have been shot through a softFX filter or something. Not IR, was it?

I will provide 15 (not 16) identical B&W frames to the mix. I intend to shoot something high res like Neopan 100 or panF.

It would be good to have three people send out one of each media, then a pool of people to accept the frames, scan them, and post them according to some guidelines.

I'd say scan at maximum OPTICAL resolution of the scanner, no adjustments for contrast or saturation, no sharpening (be sure to turn off automatic sharpening), no exposure adjustment, no cropping edges off (we don't want any vital image areas cut off that will affect the finished resolution/size ratio. No scanning B&W as positive or anything like that either. Make sure your scanner is focused accurately, dust free, etc.

So now, we just need someone with a 4990, 9950, 4780, etc.

I have a Multi Pro and an Epson 3170 - will scan on both.
 
And on other guideline - the test roll must be a controlled lighting still life unless you can be sure of the consistency of the light.

We have 35mm E6 & B&W, 645 B&W & C41. Anyone else?
 
For 35, I'm loaded for bear (Minolta 5400 I). For the 645, I have my monster UMAX 2100 XL tabloid with tranny lid, but that'll do only 1600x800 optical. Still wouldn't mind trying a scan with it to compare to current higher-res stuff (the scanner came with holders for just about every format short of 11x14 sheet film, but I guess I wouldn't really need a holder for that). :)


- Barrett
 
Count me in! I have a Nikon Coolscan V for 35mm and an Epson 4490 which can do 35mm and 120 negs. I'll be available for this after 22 May.

Rather than dictating the workflow, I'd like to let people use their preferred workflow, and just compare the results (scanner workflow, not post-processing in PS etc). Then we can compare results and learn from others. But I'm happy to go with whatever you think is most useful.
 
erikhaugsby said:
I can see Lutz making a buttload of money off of this if enough people hop in and buy his negs...
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we're not here to make money. No one should make a dime off this. This is for the good of the forum. No one will be reimbursed for shipping, etc. You put $ into this, and everyone will get $$$ out of it in value.
 
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