Paypal Fund-Freeze Upsets Sellers

I suspect fraud is turning off a lot of people, and must be causing a drop in revenue for Ebay. I'll be more impressed when they require sellers to post Serial Numbers of the item being sold. Too many stolen goods are being fenced, and phony auctions based on pictures being captured and re-used. List the serial number so that it can be checked in a database. Then look to make sure it matches the item that is shown.
 
I had my own problem with Paypal last year. Someone hacked my account, and was able to transfer MORE MONEY from my bank account than the balance! I caught this prior to the transfer, and when I called paypal they let the transaction go through anyway, overdrawing my account by a large amount. Fortunately, I was able to cover the negative balance until paypal reversed the transaction. However, while I do have an account, I will NEVER attach it to a checking account again. Were I to sell on ebay, i would request money orders.

And check out www.paypalsucks.com ...
 
Yep, I hate Paypal too. eBay is no fun anymore either. Gandy may have opened a flood gate w/ his reasonably priced classified ads, and that's great. I would much rather buy from a RFF member than eBay these days. The thing to remember about Paypal is that they are not a bank, and not subject to banking regulation. They can, and do, pretty much whatever they want, and you have absolutely no protections w/ Paypal like you would w/ a bank transaction. I have had to resort to using them because whenever I sold something on eBay and took only money orders, at least half of the time the buyers would flake out and not send them. But w/ Paypal's new higher fees and this new policy change I may go back to the money orders.
 
Why wire transfers aren't popular in the US? Aren't they free of charge or do the banks not offer e-banking?
 
Speaking of these things, a local UPS employee has been caught relabeling packages so they were delivered to his residence, whereupon he sold them online.

Money order question: How do you guard against bogus money orders? If someone send me a bad check and I deposit it, and then spend that money, I've got a problem when the check fails to clear. Can something like that happen with a money order?
 
PayPal is a business and their business is to make money. I'm no fan of their greedy business practices either but as a buyer PayPal is the only thing I'd use to make my payments. I have dealt with money orders in the past and it's just a huge hassle without any buyer protection, either.

There's a lot of bad things that could be said about Paypal... I don't think the new policy is necessarily one of them. At least not if I understood correctly.

"Merchants who have been registered with eBay for more than six months, have a feedback score of 100 or higher (meaning they've received positive comments for at least that many transactions), and have a "dissatisfied buyer" rate of less than 5% will never have their funds held."
 
I stopped using Paypal over 3 years ago. It hasn't been a significant issue. Interestingly there are an equal number of eb@y merchants who decline to use payp@l also.

About 90 percent of the merchants will accept money orders and that's the route I take. It's a hassle but I prefer this route. Apparently Google is experimenting with online payments and of course the Canadian banks do interac transfers so I don't even need paypal in Canada.
 
There are a lot of counterfeit Money Orders out there. You have to wait for the funds to clear the bank to be sure it was good. That can take several weeks. The bank can place a hold on the availability of funds until it clears.
 
Brian Sweeney said:
Wire transfers can run $25 or more. They are not free.
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A little off-topic but WaMu for some reason provides free domestic and international wire transfers. Pretty handy. :)
 
The purpose of Paypal and all government regulation is to protect the buyer not the seller. I believe that I have addressed this issue in the past. Every American state has consumer affairs offices and their purpose is to insure that the seller meets his obligation. Credit card companies policies are such that they may take back funds already allocated to a seller's account. Reputable auction houses will guarantee their items and if they are not as described will cancel the sale and refund the money. All ebay & paypal is doing is insuring that the item is shipped in a timely manner and meets the description. If waiting 21 days means a foreclosure on your house then something is obviously wrong with your business plan with ebay. How fair is it when sellers advertise starting bid is and then add the caveat that "Reserve is not Met?" The definition of a reserve is the starting bid! Then these sellers state that payment must be made within 3 days but they have the option under US law (Who knows what it is under ebay law?) of shipping the item 30 days later. I think that holding funds for 21 days is a very good idea. Actually, it is a very old idea that was used in past centuries to insure transactions.
 
Vic said:
Some of the posts here are misinformed, and border on the hysterical.

(1) If you are a savvy buyer, only buy from a seller who accepts PayPal, and ALWAYS pay via your crecit card through PayPal. NEVER use your bank account to pay via PayPal. This way, your credit card company provides a level of protection that is beyond what PayPal claims to provide. And it goes without saying that you should NEVER use Western Union or any other method of payment. In business parlance, you're just spreading your cheeks.

(2) NEVER buy from a seller who does not accept PayPal. The reason is that if you use any other means of payment, you have no recourse in getting your money back if the transaction is not completed, or if the goods don't meet the description. There was a tragic story of a photographer here who wired a lot of money from his account and never received the merchandise. In the end he had no protection, for bank acounts are not in the warranty business, whereas credit cards are, so it was a sad ending.

A lot of ended auctions lately have been voided by eBay due to continuing fraud, and sometimes by sellers when the ending price did not meet their expectations. This creates mistrust of the system, and eBay is trying to build confidence in the buyer. What's wrong with that?

Anyone who does not exercise all the reasonable precautions when venturing into a marketplace, has only himself to blame if something goes wrong that could have been avoided if the precautions had been taken.

To whine and use words like evilBay is just silly. So many people have bought great gear via eBay. OK, so a very small percentage of transactions have gone sour. That doesn't mean one should bury one's head in the sand and wax nostalgically for the good old days of no eBay and gouging retailers. Come on folks, cars and planes crash, have you given up driving and flying?
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I feel exactly the same way!
 
The announced practice of Ebay holding funds involved in rather large transactions isn't new. It's been going on a for a while now. Besides rangefinders, my other love is vintage fly fishing tackle - especially bamboo flyrods. In the case of cane fly rods, depending on maker, values can often run from $1K - $7K. Same with certain vintage fly reels. Scams and false auctions are a norm in that part of the Ebay community because there's the possibility of making off a with a boat load of money from unsuspecting buyers. Members of the vintage fly tackle community on Ebay have been subject to the "hold" on large price transactions in the past and while mostly disgruntled have begun to accept it as the norm on certain transactions.

Because of the shear numbers of fake auctions, mostly from off-shore sources, Ebay has had to react in an unpleasant manner to protect the buyer. Does it suck - yes! However, were you to be on the buying end of a large transaction that turned into a scam, you'd appreciate Ebay's action to hold the funds till you as the buyer were satisfied on the deal. I believe the 30 day period was arrived at from the shear number of international sales, the length of shipping period that often is involved, and the fact that often times a lot of folks are slow to provide feedback that finally closes the transaction.

As a frequent buyer and an occassional seller on Ebay - the notion of holding funds on large transactions doesn't bother me. The idea that Ebay would continue to ignore the rampant scams would bother me. If you're an honest and upfront seller - then you really have nothing to worry about. However, if you tend to liberally exude a false "glow" on an item and purposely deceive buyers on the condition of items and accruded negative feedbacks from those sells - then you may have something to worry about.

Ken
 
I was scammed out of $500 recently when I paid by money order. The e-Bay ad was on a hijacked account. I still use ebay but as a buyer but I would rather use Paypal than any other method of payment due to that experience.
 
Personally, I haven't made negative experiences with pp so far, but am aware of the risks it can have. Other payment forms have their quirks, too. I do not accept money orders and checks anymore as many of them were just not clearable here in Switzerland (though we're a country of banks, but some buyers sent checks/orders from small local banks somewhere in the USA, Argentina or Asia). Bank wire is ok for me, if the buyer shares the fees. Sending cash in registered envelopes did not work in 2 cases where the adressee pretended the enveloped had been opened before he received it.

As buyer I like paypal because of it's speed, and because it's free of charges for me (unless the seller wants me to pay it). The buyer protection worked well in a case last year where the seller did not deliver the goods - not to me, not to all other buyers. Obviously a scammer. Paypal refunded me 100%.

As seller, I always download paypal funds to my bank account at the time they come in. So even if they want to freeze something, there's nothing there. And they re not alowed to charge my credcard without my interaction. And if they'd do it, I'll block the payment through my bank.

Didier
 
Didier, the EU has substantially different guidelines for PayP@l business. I'm in Canada and wish I had the 'buyer' protection available in the EU.

I think a lot of the fuss being deflected here is in cumulative regard to other business practices of Payp@l. When I compare transfering funds by Payp@l to the Interac transfer system for moving funds from my bank to another Canadian bank, I can only wish.

Payp@l survives despite it's significant shortcomings because it has no competition. It will have some you can count on it.
 
jan normandale said:
Didier, the EU has substantially different guidelines for PayP@l business. I'm in Canada and wish I had the 'buyer' protection available in the EU.
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Jan,
It may slipped out of your attention that Switzerland is not EU member but I guess the protection's even better, here.
jan normandale said:
Payp@l survives despite it's significant shortcomings because it has no competition. It will have some you can count on it.
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I believe Google has such plans. Who else could - except maybe yahoo and MS?
Didier
 
Vic said:
If you are a savvy buyer, only buy from a seller who accepts PayPal, and ALWAYS pay via your crecit card through PayPal. NEVER use your bank account to pay via PayPal. This way, your credit card company provides a level of protection that is beyond what PayPal claims to provide.
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I will admit I'm confused by PayPal's fees for those receiving money. It seems as if a non-business seller pays nothing to receive money paid to PayPal from a credit card but must pay a fee to receive money paid from a bank account. On the other hand, a business customer seems to pay a larger fee to receive a payment paid with a credit card than with a bank account. Hence sellers want to charge extra to receive payments paid to PayPal with a credit card. Has this come up as a problem for people?
 
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