David Murphy
Veteran
You can use Western Union Cash direct to you for overseas sales if your buyer agrees. I've done it for a few overseas buyers in countries that have a lot of PayPal fraud. PayPal/eBay prohibit this form of payment cause it's not "safe" i.e. they don't make a dime off it.
Also many countries have reciprocal agreements with their postal money orders, e.g. Canada. This means the US Post office will cash the international postal money order they've sent to you - I've done it and it works like a charm and costs you nothing. eBay won't tell you about this and a lot of sellers are not even aware of this option. Most US banks won't touch these money orders without their usual gangster fees, but good old USPS comes through. There are many countries participating in this - check the USPS Web site for details.
Also many countries have reciprocal agreements with their postal money orders, e.g. Canada. This means the US Post office will cash the international postal money order they've sent to you - I've done it and it works like a charm and costs you nothing. eBay won't tell you about this and a lot of sellers are not even aware of this option. Most US banks won't touch these money orders without their usual gangster fees, but good old USPS comes through. There are many countries participating in this - check the USPS Web site for details.
Highway 61
Revisited
One year ago I sold a quite rare (and like new) Contax RF Carl Zeiss Planar 35/3.5 lens on eBay, and the auction high bidder was a gentleman from Taïwan.
He paid with PayPal and all went fine, I shipped recorded and insured, he received his lens flawlessly, then left me positive feedback and the like.
Strange thing is that a few days after he had paid for his item, PayPal restricted my PayPal account for 6 months (their excuse was that they were doing this to every low-activity account to fight against the ghosty PayPal accounts used to clear fraudulent money blah blah blah) so that I couldn't close my PayPal account eventually.
Since the delay for a possible chargeback from that buyer in Taïwan was six months - come yourself to the conclusion.
All went back to normal after I provided PayPal several data about me and my activities by fax.
I very strongly suspect that I was mentioned to somebody at PayPal by the second high bidder, a famous "eBay Power Seller" vintage RF gear collector in the UK who bids on many items at the very last minute thanks to a 'bot of his and absolutely wanted my lens, and had sent me several nasty emails after the sale, warning me about all the problems I would have to face now that I was about to sell the lens to someone in Asia, since - according to his own words - everybody in Asia are scammers etc.
I have 100% positive feedback at eBay with 523 records (opened both my eBay and PayPal accounts in 2001, like Colyn), but with their new rules I am now quite reluctant to sell through them.
He paid with PayPal and all went fine, I shipped recorded and insured, he received his lens flawlessly, then left me positive feedback and the like.
Strange thing is that a few days after he had paid for his item, PayPal restricted my PayPal account for 6 months (their excuse was that they were doing this to every low-activity account to fight against the ghosty PayPal accounts used to clear fraudulent money blah blah blah) so that I couldn't close my PayPal account eventually.
Since the delay for a possible chargeback from that buyer in Taïwan was six months - come yourself to the conclusion.
All went back to normal after I provided PayPal several data about me and my activities by fax.
I very strongly suspect that I was mentioned to somebody at PayPal by the second high bidder, a famous "eBay Power Seller" vintage RF gear collector in the UK who bids on many items at the very last minute thanks to a 'bot of his and absolutely wanted my lens, and had sent me several nasty emails after the sale, warning me about all the problems I would have to face now that I was about to sell the lens to someone in Asia, since - according to his own words - everybody in Asia are scammers etc.
I have 100% positive feedback at eBay with 523 records (opened both my eBay and PayPal accounts in 2001, like Colyn), but with their new rules I am now quite reluctant to sell through them.
colyn
ישו משיח
Currently my eBay count is at 577 with 100% positive and none of my buyers had any problems with the transaction. I suspect though this buyer will leave a negative but then it only takes one person who doesn't read the item description to screw things up..
I won't have to worry about him now since he is now in my blocked bidder list..
Edit: I just picked up another positive hit for 578....
Last edited:
sunsworth
Well-known
The only negative feedback I have on eBay is from someone who won the auction for an M2 and then refused to pay because it was too expensive! I left negative feedback and he retaliated. The M2 was relisted and sold for a similar price to another buyer.
colyn
ישו משיח
A couple of years ago I bid and won a Leica IIIc body from a US seller who said he would send an invoice with total including shipping. His shipping charge on the invoice was $250.00 which I refused. He then threatened to leave a non-paying bidder strike but I filed a complaint with eBay who then suspended his eBay access for overcharging for shipping.
I didn't get the camera but I also didn't get a negative either..
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
While I may not like dealing with paypal as a seller, I sure do prefer it when I'm buying.
I bought a 35 summicron recently from an ebay powerseller in Canada who said - in his ad - that he accepted paypal. But when he sent me the invoice, he didn't offer paypal as an option. When I pushed him, he wanted me to pay an extra 4 percent to cover his paypal fees - which is a no-no for sellers on ebay.
He wanted a check or money order. But eventually, he relented and shipped the lens for the price I had agree to pay when i won the auction.
If I am buying something that expensive from a complete stranger, I like knowing that paypal will support me if there is a problem.
When I sell, I always offer a money-back guarantee (minus shipping). I think it derails a lot of potential problems.
I bought a 35 summicron recently from an ebay powerseller in Canada who said - in his ad - that he accepted paypal. But when he sent me the invoice, he didn't offer paypal as an option. When I pushed him, he wanted me to pay an extra 4 percent to cover his paypal fees - which is a no-no for sellers on ebay.
He wanted a check or money order. But eventually, he relented and shipped the lens for the price I had agree to pay when i won the auction.
If I am buying something that expensive from a complete stranger, I like knowing that paypal will support me if there is a problem.
When I sell, I always offer a money-back guarantee (minus shipping). I think it derails a lot of potential problems.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Customer is always right. Accept the return.
I have more than 700 eBay transactions, and always pay the fees to eBay and PayPal happily. These services make my life easier, and I think they're worth it. If you don't, you're right to dump the services. But you should definitely let the buyer return the camera. It's a pain, but you will thank yourself for taking the high road, and giving in regardless of blame.
For a while, when I first started on eBay, I got really pissed at unreasonable people. But people are inherently unreasonable, and every since I decided to just give in whenever someone complained, I have been a happy eBayer.
Go zen. Give the idiot what he wants, and do it with a smile, then get on with your life.
My .02!
I have more than 700 eBay transactions, and always pay the fees to eBay and PayPal happily. These services make my life easier, and I think they're worth it. If you don't, you're right to dump the services. But you should definitely let the buyer return the camera. It's a pain, but you will thank yourself for taking the high road, and giving in regardless of blame.
For a while, when I first started on eBay, I got really pissed at unreasonable people. But people are inherently unreasonable, and every since I decided to just give in whenever someone complained, I have been a happy eBayer.
Go zen. Give the idiot what he wants, and do it with a smile, then get on with your life.
My .02!
David Murphy
Veteran
I sell less and less on eBay. No need to fork over rapacious sums to those gangsters. There are other places with better, smarter buyers to sell to. RFF is one such venue.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
colyn
ישו משיח
I do not nor have I ever accepted this as true..
Not now or ever!!! I sold it "as is" for parts or repair. He should have read the description before bidding.
I don't have a problem with eBay and paypal seller fees just people who bid without reading the description.
I come from a family that was and still is heavily involved in retail business. I was taught to treat the customer fairly but not to give in when he is wrong. In all honesty I could care less if this person is unhappy. By dumping paypal I save money..
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I didn't mean you weren't right in principle! You are. The buyer is wrong. But why let this weigh on you? Accept the return, sell it to somebody else, and pretend none of it ever happened. Why throw out a generally useful and successful system of doing business just so you can beat this buyer?
Again, if dumping paypal will make you happier in the long run, then it's the right decision. But if you were confident about this, you wouldn't have complained on the forum.
Some people are jerks. Accepting the return will let you get on with your life, minus a couple of bucks, and you can continue doing business with the 98% of people who aren't jerks.
Zen, I tell ya.
Again, if dumping paypal will make you happier in the long run, then it's the right decision. But if you were confident about this, you wouldn't have complained on the forum.
Some people are jerks. Accepting the return will let you get on with your life, minus a couple of bucks, and you can continue doing business with the 98% of people who aren't jerks.
Zen, I tell ya.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Or think of it this way. You are right. You know you're right. But nothing you can ever say or do will in a million years convince the buyer you're right. So you can piss him off by refusing, and possibly make your life more difficult in the long term if in fact he pursues some legal means of getting his money back. If you're pissed now, you'll be enraged then.
Or you can give him the refund, let him think he's right, let him be happy with his little baby tantrum, and no more problems for you. You'll know you were right forever, isn't that what matters?
Or you can give him the refund, let him think he's right, let him be happy with his little baby tantrum, and no more problems for you. You'll know you were right forever, isn't that what matters?
colyn
ישו משיח
The point of my original post was not I refuse to refund this person but doesn't it seem odd that paypal would close the dispute in my favor then...without consulting with me tell the buyer he could return it??
I offered him a return minus shipping but his response to that was "go f**k yourself".
An interesting find..I logged into my paypal account a few minutes ago and find it has not been locked nor is it in a negative balance (I still have a balance of .33 cents) even though he has complained that I returned the package and there are no open disputes..
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Yeah, I agree, that's really perverse, and I don't get it.
I didn't realize you'd offered to accept a return minus the shipping--IMHO, that's a very, very reasonable thing to do. If his response was really as you said, I'd forward the email to PayPal...the buyer seems to have lost it.
Anyway, good luck. I don't mean to be contrary, I just usually take a loss in these circumstances to save myself the grief. When things get to this stage, there's generally no good solution.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I know this wasn't the original point. But I'm not sure this is even going to prove to be true. By refusing to take paypal, you run the risk of eliminating a chunk (the big question is how big of a chunk) of potential customers/bidders.
When I see auctions that won't accept paypal, I ignore them. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
It's the same with merchants who refuse to accept credit cards because they don't want to pay those fees. I wonder how many sales they lose because of it.
colyn
ישו משיח
2 days after closing the dispute paypal notified me that the buyer was returning the item for a full refund. I questioned that but never got a response. I sent another email to paypal today asking why.
When he first contacted me saying the camera was not working like I said it was in the auction description I referred him back to the closed auction description that clearly described it as is for parts or repair he then claimed that I changed the description after the close of the auction which everybody know cannot be done. He continued to harass me till I finally offered a refund minus shipping. That's when he made the statement. He then filed the paypal complaint and I forwarded that email when I responded to the complaint so paypal is aware of his comment.
He decided not to accept my offer of a refund in the beginning so I will no longer offer that as an option.
He sent me several harassing emails which I finally forwarded all of them to his ISP. I have not heard any more from him since.
colyn
ישו משיח
I'm beginning to wonder if I will lose my paypal account not that I really want it.
I sell on eBay mostly for fun not for profit..so by not using paypal it won't really hurt me.
If I keep paypal it'll probably be used for buying instead of selling since paypal is no longer seller friendly..
jmkelly
rangefinder user
I had fun reading this little piece about "Why 'The Customer Is Always Right' Is Wrong". The principle doesn't apply to the kind of 1:1 transaction an eBay auction represents, but it is satisfying to me to see this patently ridiculous axiom questioned.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Colyn,
All I'll say is this - I consider Paypal to be the enemy. They are against both buyer and seller in pursuit of the quarterly wall street profit statement. Sometimes a person has to deal with them, alas, but you always have to realize that Paypal will scr*w all users (buyers, sellers, etc) in favor of quarterly profits. It is not a question of if but rather one of when.
When I have a choice I use USPO money orders because there is a _real_ buyer protection capability there - the threat of federal felony mail fraud prosecution
Paypal was, is, and always will be, a sick joke. Keeping that in mind allows one to use it carefully when there is no other option.
Please stick to your decision to never accept them again. It's only by us, the consumer, refusing to be ratfu*ked on a regular basis that we will gain any control over the markets that we use.
William
All I'll say is this - I consider Paypal to be the enemy. They are against both buyer and seller in pursuit of the quarterly wall street profit statement. Sometimes a person has to deal with them, alas, but you always have to realize that Paypal will scr*w all users (buyers, sellers, etc) in favor of quarterly profits. It is not a question of if but rather one of when.
When I have a choice I use USPO money orders because there is a _real_ buyer protection capability there - the threat of federal felony mail fraud prosecution
Paypal was, is, and always will be, a sick joke. Keeping that in mind allows one to use it carefully when there is no other option. Please stick to your decision to never accept them again. It's only by us, the consumer, refusing to be ratfu*ked on a regular basis that we will gain any control over the markets that we use.
William
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Colyn,
All I'll say is this - I consider Paypal to be the enemy. They are against both buyer and seller in pursuit of the quarterly wall street profit statement. Sometimes a person has to deal with them, alas, but you always have to realize that Paypal will scr*w all users (buyers, sellers, etc) in favor of quarterly profits. It is not a question of if but rather one of when.
When I have a choice I use USPO money orders because there is a _real_ buyer protection capability there - the threat of federal felony mail fraud prosecution
Please stick to your decision to never accept them again. It's only by us, the consumer, refusing to be ratfu*ked on a regular basis that we will gain any control over the markets that we use.
William
Well said. I hate Paypal as well. I also use USPO Money Orders if it is listed as a choice by the seller.