PayPal + UPS warnings

Something very similar happened to me two months ago - I got confirmed payment from a verified Paypal account after an Ebay auction ended, I shipped, then the buyer somehow reversed charges on me. In my case I had shipped with delivery confirmation via USPS (which is NOT the same as a signature) but I got lucky and Paypal / Ebay took my side of the issue.

You can respond to Ebay by following their disputed transaction procedures. Tell your side of the story in detail, including the delivery information, such as it is. In my case they credited the funds back to me (after first yanking them out) after about 2 weeks.

Moral of the story: insured shipping with full signature confirmation is required for anything I sell on Ebay/Paypal. And I hope that will be very few transactions. It is not common knowledge that the Paypal TOS require signatures in order to fully garauntee the transactions. But that is exactly what the fine print says.

All the best and I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope they resolve it in your favor.
 
PS: PayPal has your SS. Next year, they will report your gross sales to the IRS.

Canada Inland Revenue recently forced PayPal and eBay to give them all their payment records so they could audit people who didn't report their online income.
 
Oscar Levant said:
Your fault. Any item over $250 has to have signature confirmation. Don't buy and sell expensive items unless you understand what you're doing. You can sign every petition until doomsday, blame UPS or God, I think you have lost your item and the money.
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Part of the problem here is that he was under the impression (and it sounds rightly so) that he was getting signature confirmation. The OP is a victim of a sort of double-screw IMO. By UPS and by PayPal.

Signature confirmation is difficult if you are shipping out of country. The only way I can get sig confirm shipping outside of Canada is to ship using a courier (such as UPS) and this greatly increases the shipping cost.

An interesting thing to consider is that eBay is based on reputation (that of the seller and buyer). As a buyer I can decide not to buy from someone who's reputation is not what I feel comfortable with. As a seller I'm screwed. I can't get rid of iffy buyers.
 
"Next year, they will report your gross sales to the IRS."

Oscar: your source? Just curious, it would help to read more.
 
Yes, as Thomas can attest, I always ship USPS to Canada. UPS is not a good option for north of the border shipments...

thomasw_ said:
Amen to that, my fellow canucklehead brother from another mother, longsuffering from in-coming UPS-fees.....Away, be gone UPS! Brown, don't come around here no more! Va--moose!

Seriously, though, UPS just sucks.
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Wow. PayPal really is a piece of work.

They say i didn't qualify for their Seller Protection policy, explicitly because i do not have a delivery Signature, as part 4 of their Proof of Delivery requirement. So, i finally managed to reach the buyer via email and got him to confirm via email that he did receive the merchandise and that he has no qualms with the delivery or condition or the product itself. So, i call PayPal back, and ask if that could constitute proof of delivery, so that i could then qualify for Protection. They say No, it has to be a signature through UPS. Clearly the agent is just reading the policy, but if proof of delivery is no longer the issue, the signature itself isn't a relevant part of the dispute.

But, i'm still not getting any protection from PayPal.

Well, i've learned a lot today. It will be an inconvenience to not use PayPal or UPS in the future, but i'm not going through this again.
 
Since you've been in touch with the buyer, I presume he's going to clear up his payment problem, wouldn't that get you paid?

But, i'm still not getting any protection from PayPal.
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Without an independently verifiable signature, i.e., without following their guidelines, they don't have to provide protection. Gotta read the fine print...
 
1) Go to "Advanced Search" and get the contact details of your buyer and call him on the phone. A two minute conversation should give you a feel for whether he's trying to pull something or not. Call him on the phone, don't email.

2) Ask PayPal for the reason the bank reversed the payment. Insist on an answer, speak to a supervisor.

3) If you can't get any satisfaction, file a police report in the city where your buyer lives. The report is for theft. He admits delivery but stopped payment. It's like stopping a check.

I think you're rationalizing. You were too cheap to spend a tiny fee to get a signature. I don't believe that you assumed you were getting one. You didn't want to pay for it.
 
bhop73 said:
How about calling the police in the guy's town and report your items stolen?
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Hi.
I did call them. They say they cannot investigate without a Police Report being filed. And, you can't file one over the phone. This was shipped out of state. Coincidentally, i actually have a trip to the town next to this person's town - next week. I will be filing that report if this isn't resolved.

PayPal suggested i deal with the Internet Fraud department (ic3.gov), which is supposed to be a partnership with the FBI (since the transaction crossed state lines?).
 
So you conclude that he received the item, but he's sophisicated enough to realize that you didn't get a signature, so he's trying to game the system?

Or is there another explanation for the bank reversal?

Something doesn't add up if he admitted to you via email that he received the item. Save those emails, with headers.


.
 
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This is my issue with UPS:
• Option 1: Send Email Notifications.
If you check this, you can enter your email address and UPS sends you email notices upon package pickup, if there are any delivery glitches along the way, and finally, the delivery information: time, date, location, person. This is "free."
• Option 2: Receive Confirmation of Delivery
Since i already get a confirmation of delivery in the email option selected above, i thought this was redundant/moot. They say they MAIL you a copy of the signature. As i didn't need to have that mailed to me, i skipped this. This option comes with a fee.
...
• Option 4: Deliver without Signature.
I deliberately did NOT check this. I did not want them to deliver without a signature. With my 'bizarre logic,' I assumed that if they are Not Not getting a signature, then they ARE getting a signature.

- I have since learned that Deliver without Signature means the driver will definitely not get a signature.

- If you do not check the Receive Confirmation of Delivery box, you will not be presented with the drop down menu on the next page, asking what kind of signature you want. But, since i thought i was getting all the delivery confirmation information in the email notifications, i never checked this box. I still don't know why the two Signature Type options are not presented in this same dialog box. The agents couldn't explain it either. The point is that the second option does NOT contain any mention of a signature, while the fourth option DOES.

Okay. That's it. I guess i've said all i can say. I'm sure some will say it was still my fault. I'll admit that if they'll admit their site is misleading and illogical. Now that i know what to look for, if i'm ever forced to use UPS again (it will have to be by force), i'll spend an hour reading and re-reading all the legalese in the user agreement....
 
CK Dexter Haven said:
So, i finally managed to reach the buyer via email and got him to confirm via email that he did receive the merchandise and that he has no qualms with the delivery or condition or the product itself.
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So, why did the buyer have Paypal reverse the transaction? If there was something wrong with the product, why haven't they sent it back? From what you posted, it seems that the buyer was satisfied with what you sent... So what's the buyer's problem?

You might try dealing with the buyer some more. Something sounds wrong there.
 
I've always been suspect of Paypal from it's inception. As already stated, there are lawsuits against it in ( I believe ) all 50 states. I use it for buying, due to the fact that many sellers only accept it, but have never used it for selling, and I haven't sold anything on the bay in a few years due to their practices.

As for UPS, I will never ship anything with them. I used to work at one of their hubs ( one of the largest ) and I experienced firsthand how they work as a company. It's basically volume. They don't care how badly damaged the packages get, as long as they move them from one place to another quickly. I can't even count how many times I've seen supervisors throwing packages. They condone, and actually encourage, this kind of practice, all in the name of volume. The last thing that that company has in its interests is the customer.

I truly feel bad for the OP, as he got royally screwed from not one, but three people/companies. I hope that the issue gets resolved in his favor.
 
Paypal is following their seller protection guidelines to the letter. If you don't ship UPS very often, or don't pay close attention, this can happen...

The checkbox in the post above MUST be checked, and then on the next page, 'signature required' must be selected as shown in the attached screen shot.

If you had done this, you'd have been covered.

Sorry...hopefully this thread will help others not make the same mistake...
 

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thomasw_ said:
Amen to that, my fellow canucklehead brother from another mother, longsuffering from in-coming UPS-fees.....Away, be gone UPS! Brown, don't come around here no more! Va--moose!

Seriously, though, UPS just sucks.
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Amen to that. Canada Customs is brutal, and UPS brokerage is no fun!
USPS is much nicer (I've had maybe 5/100 packages tagged) and things coming in from Asia never incur fees :p
 
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