PayPal + UPS warnings

Sorry for your nightmarish loss. I've been harping about this forever here: "eBay Seller Protection" is simply a scam. It does not exist - it's a fraud. Even if delivery is verified, all the purchaser has to do is complain that the product is not as described and a chargeback can result. The seller is left holding the bag 100% - that's how eBay/PayPal want it: The sellers must fall on the sword and eat all loses, real or fraudulent.

The best and safest place to buy and sell is in a trusted community where we know each other or know of each other. RFF is one such community and others are springing up all over the Internet partly in response to these egregious eBay/PayPal ripoffs.




CK Dexter Haven said:
I hope this is a unique problem i'm experiencing, but somehow i doubt it.

So, this is the story:
1. A guy buys an item from me on Ebay. He doesn't respond with payment, though, for a week. Finally, he says he's ironed out his financial/time issues, and says he sent me the money via PayPal. I get no notification from PayPal, and my balance doesn't reflect any activity. I tell him. Next day, he DOES 'complete' the payment. Funds were from his bank account.

2. I receive the PayPal notification, with the line "okay to ship." So, i send the package via UPS. It was "delivered" yesterday.

3. Today, i get an email from PayPal, saying the buyer's bank has reversed the transaction, and that i now owe PayPal. There is no other explanation. I've called and spoken to agents and supervisors. No claim of non-receipt. No claim of an issue with the product, which was As New as possible.

4. PayPal says i am NOT protected in their Seller Protection policy because the package was delivered by UPS WITHOUT A SIGNATURE. So, i go back to UPS and ask why. They say it was the DRIVER'S DISCRETION to not get a signature, even though i deliberately did NOT check the delivery option to "Deliver without a signature." They say i should have checked off a fee-based option to "Get delivery confirmation." In the past i have not checked that option because it comes with a price, and i get the delivery time, date, and receiver's name when i check the "Send email notifications" option.

5. UPS' argument is that: NOT checking "deliver without signature" does NOT mean 'deliver WITH signature.' I'm not sure how that's logical. In my mind, NOT checking it is a pretty clear indication that i DO want a signature. At the least, it's an indication that i Don't want them to Not deliver without a signature, and isn't that the same thing?

6. Secondly, why would i go into an unwanted option (delivery confirmation) to find a hidden page that gives further signature options if i'm already getting confirmation of delivery with the email notifications?

7. Thirdly, because of the value of the package, when i set up the shipment online, the shipping site REQUIRES that i get a signature of the pickup driver in order to take the package. Somehow, though, that does not indicate to them that there should be a signature on the other end. If it's so valuable that they need a verification of pickup, why isn't the same true for delivery? They left it on a porch instead, and the recipient isn't saying a word.

I'm out, so far, $1250.

[I'm posting this elsewhere, as well. It's a warning. PayPal can just reverse the payment. Even after you've sent the merchandise. UPS doesn't seem to be bothered that their site is misleading. They will refer you to the legal document and say it absolves them of risk, even while admitting that the Delivery Confirmation option and Email Notifications options are redundant, and that the former option doesn't say anything about a signature until you get to a page you don't think you need to access....]
Click to expand...
 
if you wait to ship this items until the paypal payment is transferred into you bank account are you protected? I'm guessing paypal cannot go into your bank account without your concent can they? I have always waited to ship until paypal payments have cleared into my bank out of fear of something like this. Hope this wokrs out for you in the end!
 
Read the user agreement you agreed to when you gave them your bank details.

They CAN go into your bank account. Waiting for PayPal to "clear" is meaningless.
 
Huh?

Huh?

I`m embarrassed to say that I think I`ve missed something in this thread.
The OP states in post # 61 that , via email, the buyer confirmed his/her
satisfaction with the delivered item. Why then the reversal of the bank payment? Could it just be an error by the bank?


Regards,
Al


P.S.
Does this incident finally justify the appointment of a PayPal Czar? ;)
 
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If you have been scammed, can't you go to the police? Or is it too small-potatoes for them? It's been an interesting read, but so far, I can't quite figure out what happened.
 
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