Pentax 645 Digital.

[ChrisN]

... but it does seem a bit like they went overboard with the buttons. Looks like they made a seperate button for every single function. ...

A good description of what many professionals and advanced amatuers want in their camera. I would rather have a dedicated (hardware) button for each control I want frequent access to, rather than having those controls buried layers deep in menus.

Well done Pentax!

 

[sevo]

Mamiya just recently announced a 645AFD kit for twice the Pentax's price. We should be asking how can they afford to do this? Most marketing would suggest they price it nearer to the competition's selling price, but in this case they have either released the wrong price or are compensating Pentax 645 users who waited for what seems like forever for this camera to be released.

Nobody compensates past users in the modern business world. Half the price means that they suppose they can't sell it otherwise - hardly because of actual body quality and features, but rather because of total system cost, where the competitors have the advantage of selling replacement or upgrade bodies while Pentax can sell little below full systems (body, spare body and set of lenses), after they delayed so ong that almost all their pro 645 customers were forced into buying a competing camera. Given that, buyers they need a very strong incentive to switch back - and while half the price should be strong enough, we'll have to see whether Pentax can really afford paving their way into the market with wads of cash in the long run...

Sevo

 

[Doug]

Where is Doug? I look forward to seeing what he, as a P645NII user, thinks.

Hi Chris! Been busy discovering this news elsewhere and posting it at DSLRX...
http://www.dslrexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7768#post7768

I think I might prefer the Leica S2 form factor and appearance, but that’s simply out of reach financially, and the Pentax is well less than half that though still pricey.... My P645NII feels “long” like a movie camera, and normally hangs lens-down. But it balances well with the built-in grip and the controls are logical and ergonomic.

The crop factors of these two new MF DSLRs is pretty similar, as the Kodak sensors are 33x44mm for the Pentax and 30x45mm for the Leica. The new 55mm Pentax normal lens = the diagonal of the sensor.

I doubt that it will take over the pro market, though, which seems to be dominated by Phase One and Hasselblad. Also, I'm sure CaptureOne will not support it.

Anyways, I'm curious to see what the Pentax digital line will develop into in the future. As they don't have an interchangeable back they're free to improve the design with their next camera.

Yet CaptureOne supports PEF RAW files from Pentax DSLRs, has no trouble with DNG RAW files from the more recent models, plus the P645D has the option of saving RAW as DNG too. Would not be surprised if CaptureOne is already capable of dealing with these files.

A photo posted a year ago at DSLRX showed the sensor module removed from the P645D camera body, similar to the way film cartridges are interchangeable on the P645 film cameras. Looks like an easy way to clean the sensor surface, and would seem to open the door to sensor module upgrades.

Also, sharing the lack of an AA filter with the M8 and M9, those 40Mp should be darn sharp ones! At least competitive with the S2.

This will be very attractive to those familiar with Pentax film 645’s, and who have a nice load of FA glass! Info implies it will be easier to use manual-only lenses like the previous 645 A series and P67 lenses on adapter than the rigamarole needed with K and M42 lenses on their smaller DSLRs.

 

[Jamie123]

Yet CaptureOne supports PEF RAW files from Pentax DSLRs, has no trouble with DNG RAW files from the more recent models, plus the P645D has the option of saving RAW as DNG too. Would not be surprised if CaptureOne is already capable of dealing with these files.

We'll have to see, though, how things develop now that Pentax is a direct competitor to PhaseOne. Just because C1 supports Pentax DSLRs doesn't necessarily mean they'll support the 645D. After all it also supports the M 8/9 but not the S2. AFAIK, the only other brand of digital backs CaptureOne supports is Leaf (and Mamiya, but they're basically the same company).
I'm not talking solely about RAW conversion, I'm also talking about support for tethered shooting.

 

[Avotius]

I am actually showing a little more interest than usual at a camera like this. As I use a Hasselblad with a H20 Phase One back for studio stuff this would be a nice upgrade from a very old and well used system. The megapixles would be a nice step up as well. As for what Canon and Nikon might do, not a lot of interest because despite this and that, old medium format digital is still a big step up from even the likes of a 5D mk2 when it comes to image quality.

As for ergonomics and button splatter, who cares, cameras like this spend most of their life on tripods.


But in the end, its that one big bite to take that makes the deal go one way or the other, dedicated system, or removable back so each system part can be isolated.....I tend to like the later, despite price.

 

[former member]

I priced out a Phase I recently. This camera is MUCH less. I'm surprised at the low cost for a 40MPixel camera.

 

[Jamie123]

I am actually showing a little more interest than usual at a camera like this. As I use a Hasselblad with a H20 Phase One back for studio stuff this would be a nice upgrade from a very old and well used system. The megapixles would be a nice step up as well. As for what Canon and Nikon might do, not a lot of interest because despite this and that, old medium format digital is still a big step up from even the likes of a 5D mk2 when it comes to image quality.

As for ergonomics and button splatter, who cares, cameras like this spend most of their life on tripods.


But in the end, its that one big bite to take that makes the deal go one way or the other, dedicated system, or removable back so each system part can be isolated.....I tend to like the later, despite price.

For studio stuff I'd still go for a leaf shutter system such as the Hasselblad. The H4D-40 looks promising with its True Focus AF (which I'd personally prefer over the 11 point AF as I always use the center point). A lot more expensive than the Pentax, though.

 

[former member]

It's probably using the KAF-40000?

Allowing for guard pixels for the interpolation process, looks right. This is a new sensor.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Fullframe/index.jhtml?pq-path=11937/11938/14425

Long Spec Sheet:

http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins...ISS/datasheet/fullframe/KAF-40000LongSpec.pdf

Phase I used the older KAF-39000 in some of their backs.

 

[ChrisN]

For studio stuff I'd still go for a leaf shutter system such as the Hasselblad. The H4D-40 looks promising with its True Focus AF (which I'd personally prefer over the 11 point AF as I always use the center point). A lot more expensive than the Pentax, though.

Pentax made leaf-shutter lenses for the 645 system. It's a fairly safe bet that they will make more for the new 645D.

 

[jmooney]

I've been putting off buying a 645N kit, I guess I shouldn't have....there go the lens prices :-(

 

[ruby.monkey]

I've been putting off buying a 645N kit, I guess I shouldn't have....there go the lens prices :-(

Give it a few months for the dozen-or-so total Pentax 645D buyers to find what they want, and then prices will be back to normal.

(You haven't yet bought a 645N? Shame on you! 😉)

 

[nonot]

Ugly? No - it shows respect for its heritage.

It's parent's and grandparents weren't much to look at either.

 

[Jamie123]

I've been putting off buying a 645N kit, I guess I shouldn't have....there go the lens prices :-(

The camera's not even out yet in Japan let alone the rest of the world so I wouldn't be worried. If you want one get it now before the prices go up.

 

[emraphoto]

the real coup would be a similarly priced digital pentax6x7!

 

[Jamie123]

its precisely because things have changed that should make this camera more 'usable' and appealing for ppl today (until the sensors reach something square and near 6x6 or at least 5x5) ..645 film was always popular in Japan, to a lesser extent around the globe, many of my colleagues chose to use 6x6 or 6x7 instead, some i know used the Pentax and it is quite an ergonomic and comfy system to use compared to blads, bronnies, RB's and Z's that were more popular, but just not enough neg for me...or them

thats not the case with digi MF for the time being or near future, because we just dont have the option of 6x6 sensors now..

the (supposedly) 645 digi format is pretty much on its own (may as well call it 3344!!, kinda like MF's 4/3 equivalent eh) as there isnt much else to choose from re size of senor choices (a couple of slightly larger ones we know but their a simular size and much different price bracket...so for sensor size and the price it really is a fantasticly realistic option for anyone not already invested heavely in hasse lenses, it has to seriously make anyone thinking about S2's to reconsider their position (its a no-brainer really), even some (not saying all) people considering buying into high end Nikon or Canon to use in studio/fashion/art or landscape would decide to go pentax MF with that price tag i would suggest. frankly it doesnt matter what the camera looks like when its half the price and more of what blads, mamiya, leica...well , all of them are!! besides the 645 film camera were comfy enough to use, perhaps many folk here are just so used to seeing cute little 35mm cameras they arnt used to the different looks of MF...its more important it feels good than looks good! unless you want to be photographed holding it of course 😛

it seems to have poor flash sync speed, no doubt some leaf lenses will fix that, without em it makes it poor for studio...all the buttons arnt a problem (better than menus) just so long as they dont activate easily accidentally , not sure what sort of battery life it has but i suppose spares can be readied, low shutter count is curious (disappointing) as well, but i guess it either gets swapped out or you sell and upgrade to a new model more often, you wont be doing that much with an S2!

Sure, it seems to be a great camera for the price. I'm not arguing that. I'm also not saying that anyone should base their buying decisions on the looks of the camera. What I'm saying is that I would've liked to see them being a bit more innovative when it comes to design instead of going retro and using the design they came up with in the 80s.
As for the buttons I still think they went overboard. I count 25 buttons and 8 wheels (give or take). That's a bit much, innit? I'm not saying they should bury the functions in menus but how about a tiny bit of simplification? I mean, does it really need an SD1 and an SD2 button? Can't you just have one that switches between the two? My concern with the buttons is not an aesthetic one but a practical one. More buttons means more chance of accidentally pressing one.

Anyways, I'm not saying it's not a good camera (we really don't know yet) and I'm not saying the competition is any better. I just would've liked the newcomer in the game to come up with a concept that's a bit more groundbreaking.

 

[Doug]

...it seems to have poor flash sync speed, no doubt some leaf lenses will fix that, without em it makes it poor for studio...all the buttons arnt a problem (better than menus) just so long as they dont activate easily accidentally, not sure what sort of battery life it has but i suppose spares can be readied...

Flash sync speed is respectable at 1/125; now the P67's is "poor" for sure at 1/30! If I'm remembering the specs correctly, they say 800 or so actuations on a battery charge, certainly dependent on the amount of rear-screen peeping.

As for the buttons I still think they went overboard. I count 25 buttons and 8 wheels (give or take). That's a bit much, innit? I'm not saying they should bury the functions in menus but how about a tiny bit of simplification? I mean, does it really need an SD1 and an SD2 button? Can't you just have one that switches between the two? My concern with the buttons is not an aesthetic one but a practical one. More buttons means more chance of accidentally pressing one.

The button issue bothers me too, a matter of design philosophy. I prefer the simpler user interface of the Leica, while on the P645D Pentax has followed their own practice from the K20D and K7D in the way the features are offered and arranged. Too many features IMHO. There are a lot of dedicated buttons, and also a bunch that are modal (I'm not so fond of that, requiring reference to the thick manual). But if you mostly leave it in "Green Mode" and learn a few commonly used exceptions, I find it ok.

 

[Jamie123]

Just found these pictures on the internet. Doesn't look exactly small. Was the film version the same size?

 

[bwcolor]

For those worried about the price, technology will drive prices down. For those of us in the U.S., government will make the dollar worthless.

This camera is huge. The pixels are smaller than the pixels in the M9. The M9 certainly isn't on the leading edge of sensor/processor technology, so the Pentax may make up in high tech for what pixel surface area gives away.

These photos, once again, make me want a Mamiya 7iiiD.

 

[Doug]

Just found these pictures on the internet. Doesn't look exactly small. Was the film version the same size?

Interesting shots! Essentially the same basic platform, it appears. Though the D doesn't have the "tunnel" in the grip, and is more bulgy on the top deck. Note that both have left-side tripod mount as well as bottom. See the P645NII below for comparison...

 

[Roger Hicks]

A good description of what many professionals and advanced amatuers want in their camera. I would rather have a dedicated (hardware) button for each control I want frequent access to, rather than having those controls buried layers deep in menus.

Well done Pentax!

Dear Chris,

And the exact opposite of what many other professionals and advanced amateurs want...

You can't please everyone.

Cheers,

R.